Bryan Paul Buckley

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Bryan Paul Buckley 0:02
Episode 096 of the Elite Road Warrior Podcast. Welcome to the Elite Road Warrior Podcast where we believe you can leverage the road to transform your work, health and home life while on business travel, to ultimately master the business travel life. If you’re a road warrior, and a great chance you’re on the road right now then this podcast is for you.

Bryan Paul Buckley 0:33
Welcome to the Elite Road Warrior Podcast. I’m your host, Bryan Paul Buckley, fellow road warrior, husband of one, father of five, and on a mission to help business travelers eliminate burnout, and exceed results. I’m also committed to each and every business trip to becoming and remaining an elite road warrior. And I’d love nothing more than for you to join my master evil plan in this worthwhile road trip. Back in Episode 85, we discussed an unusually dark topic, five downward spiral choices into the dark side of business travel. Due to the heaviness of this topic, I brought in a specialist to be able to kind of unpack, man some of those heavy, heavy issues that we were discussing there. So if you’ve not listened to Episode 85, I encourage you to go back to it. But this episode here is going to reference that. So let’s meet our subject matter expert.

Bryan Paul Buckley 1:25
Dr. Nick Howard is a seasoned psychologist and leadership coach. For over 15 years, Nick has helped leaders perform at higher levels while intentionally treasuring their most important relationship. Dr. Howard has traveled nationally and internationally providing training to help strengthen leaders he knows personally and professionally the joys and challenges of business travel as he flies regularly. Today, Dr. Howard will help us understand and unpack the following questions: What does freedom in isolation create in a road warrior? What is the double-edged sword of experimenting on the road? What are the long term consequences of bad road habits? How do you know when you’ve crossed the line between a habit and an addiction? What do you do when you feel guilt, shame, and hopelessness? And as always, even with a very difficult conversation here – with so much encouragement, so much more.

Bryan Paul Buckley 2:51
It’s go time. Well, I’m live right now with the doctor Nick Howard. How are you? And where are you, my friend?

Dr. Nick Howard 3:13
Bryan Buckley? The man, the myth the legend, doing well, thanks. I’m at home, looking out my office window. It’s a beautiful fall day. And unfortunately, the Gophers lost last night in overtime by a point to Maryland. So I’m grieving that loss. But I’m doing all right. I’m doing all right.

Bryan Paul Buckley 3:32
Well, hopefully, you got to fast track where that with being a psychologist. But I digress. And we’ll unpack that and a whole bunch of things there. But being a former fellow big tenor, I’m with you on there, I want to see everybody win in the big 10. But well, ironically, with this interview, you know, we have a lot of history together. For those that don’t know, you have been one of my counselors for an extended period of time, along with a dear close friend. And we’ve been able to walk that very unique line and you’ve been an unbelievable blessing in my life through and again between us girls, and all those listening at home or even on the road through a lot of these topics that we are unpacking here today. So if there’s anybody that’s an authority on this, it is you my friend, and I’m looking at sharing the law because this is coming from a previous episode of The Dark Side of business travel and downward spirals of them the dark side of business travel. So I want to make sure from that episode we are talking through what do we do with those from a psychological point of view. I also want to say one more thing. You’re a business traveler as well when you’re speaking and doing training all over the world. But you’re also still human, male, and even incredibly trained in psychology. So I just want to say that upfront for context for those who are listening, and you speak from experience professionally, but also personally.

Dr. Nick Howard 4:50
Amen. Yeah, I am human too. There’s no denying that. That is for sure. That’s for sure.

Bryan Paul Buckley 4:56
So let’s um, let’s dive right in, Nick. I mean, there’s a lot to go through here. So let’s kind of start from the freedom and isolation side of the coin. We get on the road, man, we got a lot of freedom, a lot of time that’s there. So what does maybe this freedom and isolation create in a road warrior?

Dr. Nick Howard 5:15
Yeah, it’s a good question. I know, having done training and traveled for about 14 years before COVID hit, I guess you might say that I know, there were times that if I was experiencing tension with my wife, or tension with my kids or work was really stressful, I was really excited about the freedom that I would experience on the road like I can stay up as long as I want, I don’t have to have conversations I don’t want to have, I can go out to restaurants, etc, etc.

Dr. Nick Howard 5:46
And so there’s, there’s a lot of temptation, though. And I would say, particularly, like I just mentioned, when we’re leaving home in a negative space, if we just had a fight with our spouse, or had a negative encounter with our kids, I would say a temptation becomes much more attractive at times like that. So using our freedom poorly is much more likely when we’re in a negative emotional state because we want to self soothe, or medicate or distract, right. So being really clear about where we’re at, before we go, or as we’re going, I think is really important. Because if you’re in a tough place, you want to be that much more mindful about, “How do I stay connected with friends?” “How do I be in touch with the people that will help me make good choices?” You know, so there’s, there’s excitement about going if you’re in a good place because you get to experience you know, new places go out to eat, maybe play some golf, go to a baseball park like you often do. And if you’re in a great place, then you can enjoy that in a place of security or health. But it’s, it’s especially important when you’re leaving in negative space to really be that much more mindful. Because to the extent that we’re not, we can find ourselves in places that we regret pretty quickly.

Bryan Paul Buckley 7:00
And that’s so true. And it actually leads to kind of these next couple things, or whether we’re talking about experimenting or bad habits or addictions. So let’s start with everything experimenting, Nick, what is the double-edged sword of experimenting on the road? I mean, it could be because of that escape, or it could be Hey, because of my new business, travel and have all these new found freedoms? How do we handle those experiments on the road?

Dr. Nick Howard 7:22
Yeah, so the cool thing about business travel is often you’re meeting new people. So it’s a chance to start a new and practice being maybe assertive or asking questions, or what’s my new elevator speech if you will. How do I introduce myself to people? And how do they respond and so that’s the exciting part, or playing a new golf course for that matter?

Bryan Paul Buckley 7:44
I’m seeing a reoccurring theme here.

Dr. Nick Howard 7:48
Gotta love golf. So uh, that’s the exciting part. The… the experimentation piece, though, that’s… that’s dangerous is, you know, when you’re traveling, you’re going to be in places where most people don’t know you, especially if you slip off or if you’re not traveling with other people. So you can go places that you wouldn’t go otherwise without fear of being caught or seen, what have you. And so that’s a tricky thing. Plus, if you’re meeting up with people at a sales convention, or what have you, the social pressure to drink or smoke, or go, as you mentioned in your, your episode, regarding Charles, go to a strip club. It’s like, whoa, wait, holds on a second, like this. I didn’t know my boss was gonna set this up, like, how do I navigate this? And so

Bryan Paul Buckley 8:36
Or clients, who it’s just fine to… that’s not, that’s within his morals, and all of a sudden he thinks, hey. Look at all the things I’m doing for him not considering. Maybe that’s, that’s not okay with the other person.

Dr. Nick Howard 8:50
Yeah, so it creates tensions around how do I value my clients, but also be loyal to my values? How do I do that? And am I willing to discipline a client to honor my values and the people that I care about at home? So that’s, that’s, that’s hard, I’m sure, I’m sure.

Bryan Paul Buckley 9:08
And for those of us who have that paid for, you know, whether it is a lot higher shelf than what we’re drinking at home if you know what I’m saying? Or it is to the point, well, you know, I’m with other people, I’m just going to try this, it’s okay. Or I have no bank record of this. Or you know, whatever of this, it is easier to that’s, that’s good counsel, especially depending on the emotional state back to what you’d referenced earlier, you know, being on the road, if I’m in a bad place with this, that I can intensify that or justify those behaviors. So let’s kind of lean into bad habits, Nick, when all of a sudden do these turn into habits? And what are the consequences of those? Let’s kind of unpack that a little bit.

Dr. Nick Howard 9:53
Yeah. So… so habit, by definition means something you’re doing over and over and over. This is a shout out to Stephen Covey’s Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Right? So you might be called, he cites Aristotle we are what we repeatedly do there. And therefore excellence is not an act but a habit, we are what we repeatedly do. And I got a, I gotta indulge Kirkegaard here for a second, just because I’m a growing fan of his, but he talks about delusions, and so when we’re talking about bad habits, it means we’re typically falling for a lie of some sort. So if I believe that drinking more is actually going to bring me life, that’s actually not true, or smoking or looking at porn, like that leads to shame and regret and guilt, right? But… but Kierkegaard in a book called Works of Love, talks about how delusions actually have power. And so the more that you engage in a delusion, the more likely we are to rationalize or justify, and, and downplay the significance of the behavior. So once we have established a habit of, you know, when I drink, when I go on the road, I drink more than I do, or I’m finding myself watching porn in the hotel room, because it doesn’t come up on the bill per se, as a particular movie, right? So once that’s happening, like two or three times per se, like that habit has its hooks in you, you might say, and so, you know, granted, there are good habits, right? So you can be better at exercise on the road than you are at home. Right? It’s, it’s really about what’s in your best interest, what honors your highest values, what perhaps honors your faith commitments and the ones that are the negative ones that lead to destructive outcomes, the sooner that you can admit those, the better. Because the longer that you go without admitting them, the easier it is to go from porn to a massage to a call girl, right? All of a sudden, it’s got more and more power, like the delusion, as I’ll say, later, has you more than you have it. And so it’s just really important to try to catch them as soon as you can. Because once it starts to become repetitive, and you’re living sort of two lives, one on the road and one at home that are very different in terms of morals and values you’re… you’re in a dangerous space.

Bryan Paul Buckley 12:19
Okay, so let’s slow down because you just said something that’s very, very key. There’s, I think, I’m assuming the average business travel traveler would justify, well, I’m not that way all the time. And there’s an argument there, because that’s the deficit of integrity because now we’re two different people. But saying that I’m justifying going while I’m only that way on the road, and I’ve got it under control because it’s only on the road. I’m okay at home. And so therefore everything is okay. And you’ve been quoted as saying that you’re acting out isn’t random. So what do we say to that guy could even be me, who’s justified that I’m, you know, it’s okay, it’s road versus home, and yada, yada, yada?

Dr. Nick Howard 12:56
Yeah, there’s an author that said, Jim Blair, I think it was that said, we, as humans, we have an infinite capacity for self-deception. We have an infinite capacity for self-deception. And so like you’re pointing out in terms of integrity, you really can’t be two people because the ripple effect in your, in your life, when you’re home, will be there. And what I mean by that is, I know that when I’ve made poor choices, and I’ve not confessed to my beloved, my wife, I know that I’m more superficial and more detached. I don’t engage with the same level of depth or openness, transparency. So acting out on the road, even though it’s in a different place, you know, the hardest thing is, what happens in Vegas does come back, it might not be a venereal disease, but you’re a different person. Because I would say if you’ve made poor choices, darkness has come in, that would be a word I would use or distance. You’re more superficial. So you bring that home with you for a while. It has a half-life of some sort. Right? So I think it’s just so important to see the idea of, well, that’s just down the road. Well, that’s just a rationalization. That’s just you deceiving yourself because it does come with you. And at some level, I think we all know that you know.

Bryan Paul Buckley 14:21
And it’s a good point. I mean, you referenced Charles, which was the story of the guy that I had met, years and years and years ago, it’s made a tremendous just that story, although I’m still not in contact with him again, of the distance that he had, because of this, “second life” that he had. And to your point, you notice about coming home with your wife, because there’s a short account of that. In his case, that was business as usual, or in this case, business home life as usual. So there were so many years of decay, that he really didn’t even notice it, you know, a numbness that is there. So there may be those who are listening to this episode, Nick, who are going “well, that’s me,” which obviously there’s a lot of other issues there to unpack. So let’s go a little bit further here down, unfortunately, down this, this dark side of business travel down this downward spiral. Oftentimes, obviously, there are good habits, hopefully, the six energy habits move, fuel, rest, reform, develop, connect, then there are obviously a ton of other good habits. But then there’s obviously bad habits, even some positive things that we can turn into bad and turn and go from a progression into an actual addiction. So how do we know we may be crossed that line between that so-called habit, loose habits, stronger habits, hooks that are in you’re talking about, and a full-blown addiction?

Dr. Nick Howard 15:36
Yeah, good question. Well, the phrase that comes to mind is, something’s moved from a bad habit to addiction when it has you more than you have it. So that behavior becomes more and more compulsive to use the technical term. So it’s when you really can’t help yourself. And I was really struck as you… I was reading about Charles and that particular episode, you mentioned someone that was looking at porn in a check-in line, is that right?

Bryan Paul Buckley 16:05
That’s right. Yeah. Actually, it was at the airport kind of off to the side. And supposedly, nobody’s paying attention all that I walked behind him and, and, anyway,

Dr. Nick Howard 16:13
Yeah, so. So, I mean, this is not about judgment. This is not about trying to shame anybody. Because, as they say, in the Christian tradition, the ground is level at the foot of the cross. Like, there’s, I’ve got a lot of regrets. There’s lots of stuff I wish I hadn’t done. But the point here is, it’s like, oh, my gosh, if you find yourself doing that, at the airport, like you are addicted, like, it’s clearly in control of you. And so the thing that I think that’s important for me to share having worked with men struggling with addiction to pornography, that isn’t necessarily as much about travel. But the point I want to make is oftentimes, with porn addiction, there, there’s, there’s a way that you’re almost intoxicated by it. And so we think about if you’re smoking pot, or if you’re getting drunk, you’re gonna, you’re gonna have a hangover, you’re gonna be intoxicated, you won’t really know what you’re doing. But I’ve seen this play out over and over that if you’ve got an addiction to porn, that might be more intense on the road, you will not realize how hard it is for you to empathize or be sensitive, or you won’t see the ways you pick fights or are hypercritical. And so there’s… I think it’s important to share it to the extent that you know, a portion of your audience as men that we may not realize how much porn affects us. And that there can be like this stupid, I’ve actually had therapy sessions, where it’s sort of like if the guy had just binged the last couple days… it’s… the therapy session, while it’s helpful, in some ways, in many ways, it’s a throwaway session, because they are so lost in the illusions and darkness that they don’t even know what’s happening at some level. I mean what’s that like to hear? What are your thoughts?

Bryan Paul Buckley 18:00
Yes, I completely agree. And, sadly, I’ve had many of those conversations with people on the road, aka Charles, in this specific case, and it’s hard. You know, it’s hard to hear, because oftentimes, to your point, you’re hearing the justifications, you’re hearing the number of lies, you know, the infinite deception, if you will, and I get it, man, I’ve been down the downward spiral. So you know, I am of whom I am Chief, and I do appreciate the comment about level the cross, you know, for those of us who are persons of faith of that, and that is a question I’d like to unpack here in just a few minutes of what if you are a person who feels like you do have integrity, you do have character and faith. But before we get to that, Nick, let’s kind of move from the addictions to the moral behaviors, which I mean, ultimately could be an addiction, if you will, and you reference that whether it’s gone from porn to massages and all that, but the moral behaviors that we can sometimes justify those behaviors. What about the ramifications of those decisions and the self-justifications?

Dr. Nick Howard 18:56
Yeah, I mean, in today’s world, most of us know people that have gotten divorced and have a strained or strange relationship with their kids, or certainly, in the world of Christian Leadership, as a pastor acting out on travel, that can be devastating to a person’s career. So the greater the acting out, you know, if it’s if it’s chronic versus a one-time thing that makes a difference. The…the hard thing is, the more and I’ve witnessed this professionally, gratefully, not as much personally, but the further we go down that road like I was referencing Kirkegaard, the more that we deliberately choose at some point, you know. So, you know, when you talk about a strategy for the road, let’s say if you’re struggling with pornography, it’s like how do you… what’s your… what’s your ritual around when you go in the hotel room to make sure that you’re least likely to watch something or if it applies to drinking or what have you? The more that you kind of blow past those things and are thinking about, how do I indulge? How do I actively make this work? The relational ramifications, the vocational ramifications are gonna go up commensurately. It’s like all of a sudden, like, there was I just saw this, there was a pastor that was on an airplane, and he apparently somehow urinated on a passenger. I don’t know if you heard about that. It was like, “what?” but, so he’s arrested at the airport for public urination. And he says in the interview, I’m a pastor, this is completely not like me. And chances are, and I think this is maybe something that can be helpful, like in the case of a case like this, where you found yourself doing something that’s completely out of character. There’s a book I was talking about earlier, it’s called Unwanted by Jay Stringer. And he talks about how when we make really foolish choices, especially bad moral choices, there’s usually a complex of… he talks about, like two rivers coming together with two large rivers, like, you know, what have you in this in the states and one is current stressors. Like, if you’re under a ton of stress at work distance with your wife, you know, when your kids just acted out. Plus, if there’s unresolved family trauma, if there are things from your own backstory, that are similar, in some ways to what’s happening currently, like, when those two rivers come together, the current is the most intense, and it’s the hardest to make good choices. And so, you know, to to, if you are getting close to places like that, or if you’re finding yourself being dramatically different than you were when you started out as a road warrior, right? It’s like if you were clean, you know, you didn’t drink or smoke excessively if you didn’t look at porn, but now, you’re like, checking all those boxes. It’s like, okay, okay, stuff has gone South is going south, and it probably taps similar things from your backstory. And so the more that you ignore that, the greater the fall is gonna be, yes, the tragic reality for virtually all of us.

Bryan Paul Buckley 22:12
And I appreciate you referencing that book. And that is definitely something we’ll put in the show notes. And to go back to your story, I think somebody could very easily fixate on “Well, that pastor. Wow” and, and faith and all. But you know, it could be VP of sales, it could be CEO, it could insert whatever title that’s here. I think the more important thing is the fact they go on well, but that’s not normally like me, or unlike me, oh, man, maybe that’s our title. Or maybe that’s our self-imposed reputation, which obviously has been deconstructed for weeks, months, or years with our behaviors, which obviously, those two rivers to use your analogy, are now in full force and colliding together. But what does someone do who has made these dark side of business travel downward spiral decisions, Nick, and whether they’ve been feeling that along the way of this guilt, or the shame, or this, maybe even hopelessness, or they’re maybe feeling it now? What should they do? When should they seek professional help? How do they handle that? When they’re feeling these conflicting, maybe in a good way convicting emotions?

Dr. Nick Howard 23:15
Yeah, great question. Well, I’ve been a therapist, psychologist, what have you for 25 years and, and also have, you know, a bit of my own journey towards healing and growth, and hopefully, you know, getting closer to flourishing, the first thing that I would say to people is, the good news is that you’re not alone. You’re not alone, where you’re at. And by that, I mean, there are people that are more than happy to come alongside you, whether they’re secular psychologist or psychologist of faith, what have you. There are more and more empathy and sympathy for moral struggles, then I would say there’s ever been that’s part of what’s good about where things are in the world. As far as to shame and immediate rejection, like the scarlet letter, I don’t know what color that letter would be today, but it’s, not deep red. Like… And so there’s more openness to people hearing your story, you know, that are trained professionals, I would say than ever. And along that line, as you let’s say if you decide to interview a couple or two or three therapists, you know, part of what you want to do is start to tell your story, just kind of put a foot in the water and try to get a read or a vibe around how they respond to you. And the best ones, of course, are the ones that aren’t judging you that ask good questions. I think you know, how you engaged with Charles, that’s what a good therapist is like. And so if you can get yourself in to see a therapist, and you know, one of the good things that have come out of COVID is that telehealth is now an incredible option and so it’s reimbursed at the same level of office visits are. You don’t have to commute to see your psychologist or therapist and it’s covered by insurance. And you also in some ways, it’s interesting just to go down that road for a second having done telehealth for a while some people are more comfortable sharing with someone in front of a screen than they are actually in person. Interesting. They don’t feel as self-conscious they’ve got their own space that they’re in so they feel more comfortable. But the good news Yeah, is that there are lots of competent psychologists therapists out there that as you share with them what’s happening invited like j stringers approach which is consistent with mine, they won’t look to judge or stigmatize or be critical. Because so, so many of us when we’ve made poor choices, in some ways, we are our greatest enemy, we have condemned ourselves, we’ve turned on ourselves. And we don’t think that we should be forgiven. But that’s, that’s obviously not true. People when we soften our hearts when we’re vulnerable when we express regret or remorse, people are more than happy most often to forgive, especially someone that’s not in your system. I’m not saying that your wife is going to welcome you with open arms, right? But that’s a topic for down the road. Right? But so to seek help sooner than later, because, as I mentioned, you know, when we are falling for lies or delusions, in my experience, it’s like the grip only gets tighter. And our chances of making more foolish decisions only get greater, the longer we go without telling our stories.

Dr. Nick Howard 24:14
So do you find it because of that very reason of maybe the self-shaming, maybe there’s the assumption that I’m going to get judged, or whatever is why most people do not engage in therapy, avoid therapy, maybe even especially men?

Dr. Nick Howard 26:53
Yeah, so you know, it’s either gender is difficult for different reasons. But for men, I think especially certainly American men, you know, this whole idea of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, you know, the rugged individualist, you don’t want to be seen as weak. And, you know, men don’t cry. Like those are… those are stereotypical cultural kind of expectations that make it a lot harder for a guy to come in and say, “Yeah, I have lost control of this, I feel helpless and powerless. And I have no clue.” And so to adopt that posture of humility and vulnerability, it’s, it’s hard for us. And yet I can say, having spent a lot of time as a client with and I continued to see my own psychologist, probably on a monthly basis to this day. And having, you know, seeing roughly 30 people a week, it’s like, I see the freedom that comes from sharing from vulnerability from confession, you might say, but there’s also I mean, I don’t want to downplay the importance of good friends, like friends that you trust that you respect. They’re also an important part, and sometimes even the first step around, how do I at least tell somebody, you know, I know when I’ve been in situations where I’ve been tempted or know I’m heading into a hot zone, you might say, let one of my buddies or more than one know, like I’m heading into a danger zone. That’s been incredibly helpful. You can’t just call your psychologist up and say, Hey, I’m at the airport, and I want to go look at porn or something like that. But you can call a friend that you’ve built a relationship with. And so the larger that you can make that circle, and if it can include a trained professional, I think that’s where you’re the best off to move towards a life that you really want.

Bryan Paul Buckley 28:50
And I’m a fan of both of the friends and also the therapy because obviously, they add different levels of value, if you will, it’s like to your point, it’s a good starting point to talk to them, or maybe a friend or it’s easier access to get a hold of them. There’s also the limitation of the lack of training of where to go on there. So I appreciate you mentioning that. One more question. Before we get to any closing thoughts you’d like to leave with us, and then obviously go to that lightning round, which I’d love to hear your answers on. But let’s just talk for a moment for those that are of faith. For those of us who call ourselves Christians who character and integrity is important, something we’ve inspired to maybe if it seems something that those who know us still think that is us. But going to the road, we’ve been danger to the hot zone, the danger zone, and we’ve made errors in the past. What do you say to that individual?

Dr. Nick Howard 29:45
Well, um, you know, one of the great things about the Christian faith, which you know, we share is the great news is that we’re permanently adopted as sons and daughters and it says in Ephesians one that we were pre-chosen again before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. And Romans 5 and Romans 8 talk about we are we are justified, which means we’re completely forgiven. And my theological slant is that means for past, present, and future sins. And so the great news about that is that our sins and shortcomings, poor choices don’t ultimately define us. They are parasites or viruses to get rid of; they don’t define us, right. And so that’s the great news along with that, you know, as a Christ-follower, there’s that longing to live a life that’s pleasing to the Lord to be virtuous to be a godly man or woman to be a mature disciple. And that’s a great aspiration to be affirmed. But also, I think the challenges then, and I think that the invitation is, as you build friendships, or as you think about your pastor, or a small group leader, or someone that might be involved in a healing ministry, in church, there are people that are a lot easier to access. If you’re in a community of faith, then you would if you aren’t a part of a body of faith, and so there’s easier access. And then the challenge is, of course, to swallow your pride and be willing to confess and be humbled. But humility leads to freedom, confession leads to life. So hopefully, we can model that. And I know in my own personal experience, and also professional experience when someone is a meaningful part of discipling relationships, their growth trajectory, their healing trajectory is at a much higher rate. Because there’s support, there’s the power, the Holy Spirit, there’s a deeper, healthier community, in my opinion, that leads to greater freedom, then if you’re just slugging it on your own, without that faith community,

Bryan Paul Buckley 31:54
Any closing thoughts or encouragement for us, Nick here?

Dr. Nick Howard 31:58
Well you know, it’s, it’s a battle for everybody. There’s, there’s no one that when they go on the road, probably doesn’t face some level of temptation. It’s just, it’s just speaks to the I would say, the darkness in the world and the culture. And you know, Bryan, I really value your writing, and I value what you are inviting people to. And so there’s always hope. And there’s always a new day. And I say, especially as you seek out help. If you seek it, you’ll find it. And so, I hope that this is ultimately an episode that brings people hope, because no matter where you are, you’re not alone, and some kind of recovery is possible. And the more that you actively pursue it, the greater the human will be, and the more likely you’ll be able to restore those relationships that are the most important to you if you’ve gotten off track.

Bryan Paul Buckley 32:53
Love it. Speaking of that, how can people find out more about you and it may be just I know, you’ve got some books that are coming out, whether it’s that whether it’s things you’ve currently written, whether it is, you know, hearing you speak, or maybe even referenced the telehealth side, where there’s an interest that’s there, especially for those of us that’s on the road, maybe that’s an important feature, or maybe it takes away “Well, I can’t meet wih a psychologist because I’m always on the road.” Well, and now you got a guy. So how can somebody interact with you, Nick?

Dr. Nick Howard 33:21
Sure. Well, the easiest way is to my website, www.Finishwellgroup.com That’s my website. I’ve got an annual blog that goes out.

Bryan Paul Buckley 33:38
So for those of us cats, it used to be a lot more often than that, and then you decided you want to be an author. So now it’s an annual blog. Nice, nicely, Nicely played there.

Dr. Nick Howard 33:46
My annual blog, and I’m just finishing up a book called The Power of With; Jesus-centered Guide to Changing Lives. And it really is about bringing greater intentionality and depth to our discipleship efforts. And I do yeah, run a therapy and coaching practice. The good news is that with the advent of telehealth, and what’s changed legislatively, and also on the insurance front is that I’m able to see people from 14 different states and build video calls, what have you, you know, through zoom and things of that nature? I am currently pretty full, but I’m hoping to hire a couple of therapists over the next couple of months. And so if I’m not available, hopefully I’ll have someone to refer to. But yeah, that’s me. I really enjoy working with men to help them as my tagline is to help them heal, grow, and flourish. And, you know, people that are willing to do the tough work and in therapy, as you might recall, it’s hard. It’s not fun. It’s not let’s go drink beers, right? So there’s suffering that it asks you to enter into, but to me, you know, in light of Scott Peck again, the road less traveled I think it’s the best road to go down because it leads to the greatest life. So those are some thoughts about me.

Bryan Paul Buckley 35:07
And I love that line because it’s most of us who are who have made, some of these bad choices are on a downward spiral. So having a road less traveled that actually leads somewhere besides down and faster, which sound appealing, even if it does require that suffering or that honesty, in a healthy context with that, so I really do appreciate that, Nick, let’s end on a light note here. So with you being a business traveler, we go through some quick questions here. This is a road warrior lightning round. Your preferred airlines?

Dr. Nick Howard 35:40
Southwest

Bryan Paul Buckley 35:41
window or aisle?

Dr. Nick Howard 35:43
Totally an aisle.

Bryan Paul Buckley 35:44
Why?

Dr. Nick Howard 35:46
Freedom man, if I have to get up and I mean, I’m 55 I have to go the bathroom like every 20 minutes, right.

Bryan Paul Buckley 35:53
Nice. Well, we’ll stop at that point there for anybody who’s 60 going, so that’s it’s my number 50? The thing you always do on a flight besides go to the bathroom apparently.

Dr. Nick Howard 36:01
Well, it would make sense that I would say bring Diet Coke right because those two are clearly related.

Bryan Paul Buckley 36:07
And I’ve witnessed that actually on a plane with you. So preferred hotel chain?

Dr. Nick Howard 36:12
Marriott, brother. Marriott.

Bryan Paul Buckley 36:14
Preferred Marriott hotel?

Dr. Nick Howard 36:18
Definitely, well, that’s a good question. I will I’m going to go with the suites. I’m gonna go with the suites.

Bryan Paul Buckley 36:25
Rental car or rideshare.

Dr. Nick Howard 36:27
Oh, certainly. rental car. Yeah, I’m kind of traditional in that regard.

Bryan Paul Buckley 36:31
Thanks. For sure. Preferred vendor with rental car.

Bryan Paul Buckley 36:33
Enterprise.

Bryan Paul Buckley 36:35
Least favorite airport?

Dr. Nick Howard 36:37
Well, I got your national and international right. So I spent time in the Philadelphia airport one time and that was brutal. That was brutal hanging out in Philly. And, but then also I lived in the UK for a year. And one time I flew back through Charles de Gaulle Airport. And that was a fiasco, it was there are all kinds of different ways to…well shouldn’t say it in a positive way. But the connection system is pretty lame, and they’ve not been decorated for about 40 years. So it feels like a time warp. Like you’re back in the 1970s.

Bryan Paul Buckley 37:11
So and you got a lot of time there because your connections are bad. So it’s the gift that keeps on giving. favorite city to frequent with travel?

Dr. Nick Howard 37:19
Yeah. So I’ve been going to Orlando to Florida for about 15 odd years, usually two or three times a year and, you know, Disney world’s down there. And it’s great in the wintertime since we’re flying from Chicago. So Orlando would be the top of the list for me.

Bryan Paul Buckley 37:35
And lastly, biggest road pet peeve.

Dr. Nick Howard 37:38
Long rental car lines, which maybe is a dig on enterprise, but I just don’t like those gratefully. I’ve got that elite status thing. So I can usually annoy people and go to the front of the other line,

Bryan Paul Buckley 37:49
You become that guy. And that’s okay. I’ve seen the smile as you’ve passed the others. Yeah. Yeah, in a humble in a humble, showboat kind of way. But anyway, I think you just lost clients, or maybe you’ve attracted to them because you’ve become a lot more human.

Dr. Nick Howard 38:05
I am human.

Bryan Paul Buckley 38:11
Well, Nick, I just want to thank you for this journey. First and foremost, personally with me, we’ve worked through many of these things. These are just not words that are just kind of thrown out there. you’ve walked this journey with me, and I hope those that listen to this have found? Well, I in a way I kind of made you feel a little bit of conviction in a good way that that downward spiral changes, and you go from the downward spiral to that road less traveled, being willing to make some changes, to maybe get that integrity back or that character or who you want and long to be with there. So thank you for investing into roadwarrior nation and being encouragement to us.

Dr. Nick Howard 38:47
You’re welcome, Bryan, my pleasure. Keep up the good work, my friend.

Bryan Paul Buckley 38:54
If you have kids, you know they absolutely love mail, especially if it’s from you. Now with my kids, the cards they enjoy the most were the ones that were designed for kids. And I found that when I took just a minute or two and wrote meaningful words breathing encouragement and truth into the life of my children, they made a huge difference. And as a result, Elite roadwarrior group created a Connect cards product line to help you invest into the lives of those you love that co each card was made by a kid for a kid and connect is at the heart of elite Road Warrior and is energy habit number six. The cool part is the purchase of this card directly supports warrior wagons, a nonprofit organization, who delivers warrior wagons filled with essentials to brave children, their families battling all forms of pediatric cancer and there are five Connect card choices. Thinking of you, miss you, proud of you. Love you and grateful for you. Go to eliteroadwarrior.com/store today to pick up your very own cards.

Bryan Paul Buckley 40:12
I’d like to thank Dr. Nick Howard. Well for handling this difficult subject of the dark side of travel with encouragements in challenges and insights for us to become elite road warriors in the areas that matter most within our integrity, and our character.

Bryan Paul Buckley 40:33
You can find the transcript and everything referenced in this episode in the show notes at eliteroadwarrior.com/096. Along with free resources for both the business traveler and leaders of business travelers, I’d love to hear from you so you can connect with me on my primary social media sources, LinkedIn at Bryan Paul Buckley, the LinkedIn Elite Road Warrior page, and on Instagram at elite road warrior so wherever you are on the road, do something anything just not nothing to master the business travel life. Leverage the insight from Dr. Nick Howard, to help you become and remain an elite redware today to eliminate burnout, exceed results and maintain your character. You got this.

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Bryan Paul Buckley 0:01
Episode 94 of the elite Road Warrior podcast. Welcome to the elite Road Warrior podcast where we believe you can leverage the road to transform your work, health and home life while on business travel, to ultimately master the business travel life. If you’re a road warrior, and a great chance you’re on the road right now then this podcast is for you.

Bryan Paul Buckley 0:33
Welcome to the elite Road Warrior podcast. I’m your host, Brian Paul Buckley, fellow road warrior, a husband of one, father of five, yeah, five, and on a mission to help business travelers eliminate burnout and exceed results. I’m also committed to each and every business trip to becoming and remaining an elite road warrior. I’d love nothing more than for you to join my master evil plan. And this worthwhile road trip.

Bryan Paul Buckley 0:58
A while back, I met our guest, David, I reached out to him had a lot of questions for him dealing with culture. And we just clicked I mean, we clicked in every aspect of life being a road. We’re a large family, from our faith to the size of the family to the exact number of kids we’ve got. Come on now. Also to the way we run business and values. I just knew this guy’s got to be on this podcast episode. What a unique gift he’s going to be for you today. So I want you to meet David McGLennan. David is a business growth guide, who helps leaders learn to play the infinite game of business. He shows those leaders how to integrate their desire for high performance, achievement and growth, while focusing on the things they value most. As an entrepreneur and family business owner for most of his life he’s made the mistakes and yet loves getting out of his comfort zone to learn and grow. He’s coached and trained leaders around the world as far north as the Arctic Circle, and to share the stage with john C. Maxwell while training leaders in Paraguay, South America. He’s been married for 31 years and the father of five children, mad kudos, man, living in the Pittsburgh region. David is recovering triathlete and lives an active and healthy lifestyle. In a moment, I’ll be asking him the following questions. What was life like in those early days for your wife? When you traveled and left your starting five back home? What were the rituals you had while you traveled heavily for a long period of time? How did you train for a half Ironman distance triathlon while on the road? And what would you say to the business travel leader to help their road warriors gain consistent results on the road? And there’s always so much more.

Bryan Paul Buckley 3:01
it’s go time.

Bryan Paul Buckley 3:15
Well, I am live with Dave McGlennan How are you? And where are you my friend?

David McGlennen 3:19
Haha. I am awesome. I am in the Pittsburgh region. So excited to be with you here today.

Bryan Paul Buckley 3:27
Well, I appreciate that. And I got a piece of sports trivia. Okay with Pittsburgh. Okay, if people are in sports, they may learn or may not know. Okay, it’s the one what is the one city with at least three pro teams. So it’s got to be either basketball, baseball, hockey, football, one of the three of the four. Then all three teams share the exact same team colors. It’s the Pittsburgh it’s Pittsburgh. It’s Pittsburgh. Steelers. penguins. Pirates, pirates. Yeah, very rare. But it’s a cool cool thing. It could be iI’m a sports guy as well. Yeah, there’s this piece of trivia but Brooklyn out there right to get this whole thing started.

David McGlennen 4:07
It might win something someday, you know exactly.

Bryan Paul Buckley 4:09
You know, maybe it’s one of those trivia things where someone’s gonna go I remember that day. McGlennan guy, Pittsburgh, and even though it’s the one city with three major sports you have that same sports guy. Anyway, we digress from the start here. So we also have something very unique in common David we noticed this right away we both have our own starting five lineup right basketball with five kids.

David McGlennen 4:30
Absolutely, man. Yeah, it’s amazing. I it’s it’s it’s hard to meet some people you know that have the I have that same five kids starting lineup for sure. True.

Bryan Paul Buckley 4:40
Now, how old are your kids now?

David McGlennen 4:42
Yeah, so my oldest is 28. I just married her off a little over a week ago. Are you sure right? Yeah, right. I said Good luck, buddy. Because you know what? The oldest, so yeah, so she’s 28. My next in line is 26 And then I’ve got a 24 year old, a 22 year old and a 19 year old, we had the two year thing going. And then the last last two, we spaced that out a little bit. But they’re all amazing kids as I know you, each one of them are so unique, and it’s really kind of cool to be able to see each one of their unique personalities

Bryan Paul Buckley 5:18
coming from the same DNA.

David McGlennen 5:20
Yes, right. It’s just It’s amazing.

Bryan Paul Buckley 5:22
It truly is like, How in the world did you enter into this family? But then you see like that crazy ugly, like, that’s your mother? I completely get right there where that came from? Oh

David McGlennen 5:34
Well, the hard part is when I see myself in them that I’m like, oh, Lord, have mercy.

Bryan Paul Buckley 5:40
In the words of my four year old my youngest that that no good. No, right. Right. My wife’s very, very clear to make sure that yeah, that’s that’s the Buckley side coming out right there since great anyway. Well, David, speaking of five kids, what was life like in the early days for your wife, when you were a business traveler and watch your starting five? home with that other coach, right?

David McGlennen 6:03
Let’s just say I married a saint because, you know, life was crazy. You can I mean, you know, it’s it’s, it’s it’s crazy when I’m there and so when I’m not there, she’s short handed. And you know, it’s always it’s funny, too, because she will always tell the story that whenever I was out of town, something would go wrong. There was the the refrigerator broke, there’s a gas leak, and we have to go out to the hotel and spend the night at a hotel. You know, that kind of crazy stuff. And it never happened when I was around. It always happened when I was on the road.

Bryan Paul Buckley 6:42
You know why? Because that guy Murphy shows up in your place.

David McGlennen 6:48
Oh, I know, I know, I hated calling home. Because it’s like, oh, how are you doing? And I can always tell, you know, always tell, well, we’ve had a little challenge. And, you know, it’s either, you know, something broke down. Somebody needed stitches it you know, with, I have three boys, two girls. And so one of the boys was always, you know, having to get stitches at some point. So, so it was, it was crazy. It really was, but yeah, she put up with me.

Bryan Paul Buckley 7:21
How long did it take for you to truly appreciate? I mean, obviously, you knew it. But like, how long did it take you to truly appreciate what what you were putting her through? In a way? Yeah. And we visit droughts. We know what that means.

David McGlennen 7:32
Yeah, and I think that it honestly, I think it took a little while I don’t know that I can, like put a timeframe on it. But it took me a little while because I was so focused, being on the road. And and, you know, being in hotel rooms and, and, you know, meeting with clients and things like that, that I don’t know that I really, like, absorbed it until I came home. And I think it took me maybe a couple of years even just to really understand like, what what she went through. And I guess actually, as I’m thinking about it, here’s here’s when it kind of really hit me. She went away for a retreat one time. And I was home with the kids. And and so that really is when it like hit me like, I really don’t want these kids. Right. Yeah. How does she How does she do it? She’s making she’s making meals. She’s making sure nobody dies? You know, all of that laundry and all of that kind of stuff and so forth.

Bryan Paul Buckley 8:29
Sports practices, everything. Yes.

David McGlennen 8:31
Yeah. And so it was really I think it was really that moment that it, it hit me like holy cow. She’s really, you know, she’s awesome.

Bryan Paul Buckley 8:40
And, and I think everyone who’s listening, David can even if we only have, you know, one kid, which obviously not the case in our situation, but you take that call, and of course it’s on a night when things are going great. You know, we got a great dinner planned or we’re going to some event. And that’s when you get you know that call

David McGlennen 8:58
Right? Right?

Bryan Paul Buckley 8:59
It’s hard because you want to be empathetic, but you are completely powerless. Right? And it’s hard to to brush that off when you’ve got to do your deal. Yep. And do road life.

David McGlennen 9:09
Yes, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And you know, the thing is to it. It… having having that call is you know, you never it’s a little distracting sometimes, but you know, you got to do it. I mean, you just got it. Anytime my wife called me when I was on the road I always picked up I don’t care if I’m in a deal. I don’t care if I’m in the middle of a presentation. pick up. Yeah, absolutely. That’s one thing that that was one rule that I always had. Like, why for home calls I pick up.

Bryan Paul Buckley 9:41
That’s a great tip. That’s a great tip. And because your home life, David, I mean, one thing that I’ve always appreciated about you and getting to know you especially it’s just your strong rituals. Yeah. So what are the rituals that you had while you traveled heavily? And obviously, whether it was you know, one on the list of five kids or wherever it was with their At least your road life.

David McGlennen 10:01
Yeah,

Bryan Paul Buckley 10:02
what are those rituals? What did they look like. Unpack

David McGlennen 10:04
So the thing I think about when I think about rituals, when I, when I was on the road, is really the one main ritual is just working out, I would always work out and it varied on when I did it, when I’m home when I was home, I usually worked out like mid afternoon so that I could, you know, kind of have a little bit of a refresh or revive. But a lot of times it was at the end of a day. And and sometimes it was at the beginning of the day, I didn’t really like working out at the beginning of the day. But, um, I, you know, I worked out all the time on the road, because that was just part of, honestly, it’s part of who I am. And I was, you know, doing some crazy stuff with, you know, doing triathlons and things like that as I was, as I was traveling. And of course, you know, when you’re traveling, you know, and you’re trying to train for a triathlon, you usually don’t have a great pool, and you don’t have a bike. So really, the only thing that I did was run so I got a lot of running in. But but that’s one one ritual that I can I can talk about for sure. And, you know, then I think another ritual that I always think of too is when I was getting on an airplane, I’d get on the airplane, first thing I do is I pull out my my noise canceling headset, because when I got on the airplane, it was like, Okay, this is my downtime. And this is really, I just wanted to kind of like zone out a little bit. And so that was kind of like putting myself in my own space. I’m one of those guys that I I talk to people all day long. And so when I get on the airplane, I don’t want to talk to anybody else.

Bryan Paul Buckley 11:42
That is the international Do Not Disturb signal, exactly is the is the quintessential headphones. Exactly. Let’s unpack that a little bit, too. Obviously, it’s your own time, and you’ve been serving, giving to other people. So when you put those headphones on, it’s kind of like that go time. It’s my time. What did you do? like well, how did you for a ritual of being on a plane? How did you did you work? Did you read that? You do other things and mixture? What did that look like?

David McGlennen 12:06
Yeah, yeah, I did… it’s typically three things. So I listened to some music and and usually the music was you know, we were waiting for the the boarding process and and then you know taxiing out. And occasionally on the taxi, I would take a little nap. But usually once I got up in the air, I was awake. But then I’d listen to podcasts. And then I would also read so so those are kind of my two go to, I always had a book with me. And I always had usually like nuts with me so that I could I could eat like just like raw almonds as well I kind of my go to, so that if I missed a meal if I if I was in between flights and I I couldn’t, you know, couldn’t go eat, that I’d have something that would you know, be healthy. That’s the other thing too. I know is so hard on the road is to eat well. But I avoided you know, going to the Burger Kings and go into I you know tried to really focus in on like the, you know, subways and I love sushi. So any any place I could find sushi i was i was on it. And but but yeah, those are the kind of the things though that once I got on the on the plane, I’d put music on. A lot of times I’d listened to a podcast and in 95% of the time, I’d be reading the book too.

Bryan Paul Buckley 13:25
And that’s good to know. Because the reality is we all have rituals, it’s just a matter of whether A) we recognize them, right? Or B) if they’re serving us well.

David McGlennen 13:35
Yeah, that’s exactly right. Yeah. And sometimes you have to change those up too. You have to be able to look at it and ask yourself, Is this really serving me? And you know, a lot there were some times when I would just I would just sleep because I knew that I needed sleep. So that’s that’s important.

Bryan Paul Buckley 13:52
So for somebody listening to this and going, Yeah, I’m that guy who’s probably doesn’t have the best road rituals. Any suggestions for them?

David McGlennen 14:02
Yeah, so two things. Well, let me say three things if you can just work on your sleep, and you know, getting to sleep at a reasonable hour. I know it’s so tempting to be able to sit in a hotel room and answer emails and trust me I did that too. But but but making sure that you’re getting adequate sleep, working on your, your eating habits and recognizing where you where a better choice is. And, and then third, doing some kind of a workout getting some exercise because I know I know, that I’ve seen you know colleagues who they’re on the road and they’re eating, you know, bad times of the day, not so great food, and it really shows up in their health. And I think that that’s… those are probably the three things that I would recommend. Start with one don’t don’t try all three at the same time. But you know if it’s just like getting some exercise, go get on it. Most hotels have treadmills, go get on a treadmill, just walk or get outside and just walk around the hotel. Even if you’re not in a familiar area, it’s you know, it’s something that you can do.

Bryan Paul Buckley 15:11
And I love the suggestions because they are actually the three physical energy habits. Yeah, move, fuel, and rest. Love it. And to your point, it affects everything else. I mean, absolutely. I could have all the time though. I will argue to the death when when someone goes, Well, no ties more important energy. I said, Okay. How about if you have all the time in the world and you’re exhausted how much you get done, right? If you have a short amount of time, and you’ve got a large burst of energy, and you’re focused, how much can you get done, especially on the road, and to your point of immediately going to the email, which is the gift that keeps on giving? And it’s the well that never ends? Right?

David McGlennen 15:43
Right? Absolutely.

Bryan Paul Buckley 15:45
And so, as a result of that, if we can take care of ourselves, it’s going to make a tremendous difference on the road, especially with our rituals. So I want to go back to something you mentioned. Okay. training for a triathalon.

David McGlennen 15:57
Yeah.

Bryan Paul Buckley 15:59
On the road! It’s not like okay, well, okay. Well, I decided to, to run from Pittsburgh to Philly, instead of drive or fly. So I mean, I know you kind of rushed it, although it sounds like you’re gonna get it gonna get the laps in, you needed to Hilton Garden and pool. So, like, when you’re in the training phases, like, here’s the date, October, whatever, you’re going for the, you know, for the training of that, and you’ve got your training time? What is your on the road training look like? And then obviously, how did you offset off road?

David McGlennen 16:28
Yeah, so. So when I was on the road, I would, I would always run, I had my shoes with me that was required, I had, you know, shoes and running running gear. And, and I also would do some strength training as well, because one of the things that that you know helped me is to be able to, to, to strength train my arms, my shoulders, so that when I did get in the water, I wasn’t like totally starting from from scratch. So that helped an awful lot.

Bryan Paul Buckley 16:59
So that’s a really good tip. Because what it is, is thinking about, okay, well, you know, well, if I can’t, you know, if I can’t do a certain thing, then what’s the point? As opposed to saying what’s secondary, that could at least make that better? So when I do get in the pool or whatever, I’ve got some strength. I don’t want to I didn’t want to bypass that. That’s a really good point.

David McGlennen 17:19
Well, it is. And the other thing too, that I would do if if I if I normally when I went to a hotel, they would have some kind of workout equipment. And in general it would have weights but if I knew that they didn’t, if it was a place that I’ve been to before I would bring the the bands, you know, I had bands, so I could put them over a door, you know, and just do some strength training, do some simulated pull ups. Yeah, exactly anything to keep my shoulders going, keep my lats and that kind of helped keep me you know, strength strengthen. And so, but the biking was the part that suffered, you know, mostly. And the last one that I did, I was training. I mean, I was traveling quite a bit. So my my time’s suffered. But at the end of the day, the last one that I did, I didn’t really care about my times, I really just wanted to complete it. It was one of those things that I had been doing them for a long enough period of time that I didn’t care about the time, it was really about the people I was with and who I was doing it with. So that really didn’t matter. Yeah,

Bryan Paul Buckley 18:21
well, and I did learn that it’s really tough to pack a pelleton. It is yes, in a carry on. It is with that and if there is like, you know, let’s say in a courtyard Marriott, and there happens to be the bike that’s there. I’m not sure if you’ve seen this guy, David. He’s always no matter where I go to. He’s always on there. And he is on his phone. Yeah. And he’s managing actually to go backwards. He’s going so slow. he’s going Yeah that slow. And I’m like, dude, dude. Really? Yeah. He got to be a guy come on, man. Don’t be that guy to do that. So your point even there, it’s not like you’re gonna log log enough miles there to make it matter on there. But you’re getting you’re running. Yeah, but I mean, it speaks to just the the ability that you can still pull that off. Yeah, you can still pull off a triathalon when you’re on the road, when most people say I don’t have time to go for a walk Yeah. And here you are training for a triathlon. What do you say to that?

David McGlennen 19:13
Yeah, I say that it’s really something you said earlier. And it’s really all in your rituals. And it’s, it’s in your rituals and your your discipline. And it’s, it’s, I say, it’s like, What do you want? I mean, do you want to? what’s the end result? Think about, you know, what, begin with the end in mind. If I want a triathlon or if I want a 10 K or 5K or whatever, um, start, start with something and begin just creating that ritual. And honestly, you have to, you have to think about it like, Who am I? Am I am I a person who takes care of my body? Am I a person who takes care of myself, for my family, for my kids, whatever. But it’s, it’s all about the rituals, man. And I gotta tell you, I mean, there are a lot of days when I mean, I didn’t want to go out and I didn’t want to run because I was tired. And I have to finally, yeah, exactly. But I did it. I did it anyway, because I already paid my registration fee, and I wasn’t gonna, you know, just not show up. And so I get a charitable donation. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So it’s really all about the rituals.

Bryan Paul Buckley 19:18
And I love what you said to have, like, what am I going to get out of this? Or who am I going to become? So if you just think about, okay, if I’m going to decide, I’m going to go for a walk for just 20 minutes, let’s use the example you gave David, whether it’s in the treadmill in the fitness center, or just walking around the complex, I mean, a lot of times, you’re in a hotel, hotel complex, and there’s two or three other hotels or whatever. And you get a chance to walk around woods or walk around business park or whatever. And I love the idea of going okay, if my goal is for 20 minutes, what do I want the end of that?

Bryan Paul Buckley 20:47
Now, obviously, it’s probably not going to be while and hopefully I’m not dripping sweat, right? Because I’m that out of shape. If anything, I’m going to work through a problem, or I’m going to listen to a podcast, yours or mine? Yep. Maybe it’s going to be I just need to clear my head. Exactly. Yeah. And sometimes I don’t even know where like, I got to make a tough call. And I’m gonna use this 30 minutes here to walk just to get my head into the right spot, to be able to make that tough call or to go into this meeting or to prepare to speak that evening. If I’ve got a plan for. I absolutely love that. Talk just for another minute. Because I think this is really good about who I want to become or who do I not want to become with my rituals, and how are they interrelated?

David McGlennen 21:27
Yeah, so one of the things that I so my dad and I were close, we were business partners for almost 20 years. And one of the things I knew is I did not want to become him in this aspect of physical fitness, because he was not physical fit. He, he actually passed away at the age of 65 of a heart attack, massive heart attack, his idea of exercise was walking from the golf cart to his ball back to the golf cart again. And, and I knew I didn’t want to be that because he was overweight, he was out of shape. And he really couldn’t play with his grandkids. And so I decided, and I didn’t really decide this till I was about 32 years old. But I decided that I didn’t want to be that. And so I wanted to be someone who really took my physical fitness seriously. And I mean, you know, and it really took discipline. And I will also tell you, it took accountability because I had an accountability partner, or actually a workout partner. And he also happened to be a cop. So you know, I wasn’t going to mess around. Because he’d come after me. But, but yeah, it’s it’s, you have to think about it at the identity level, like Who am I, I am a traveler, but I’m also a fit traveler, I loved seeing the guys who like, you know, you can tell when they’re walking down the aisle of the of the plane, you go, Okay, he’s a runner. She’s a runner, you know, and and you just knew that they were disciplined with that. And so it’s really a mindset of understanding, look, I’m going to be fit. And I’m a person who is fit or becoming fit. And I’m also a traveler, I’m also a road warrior.

Bryan Paul Buckley 23:05
I love it. And hence elite road warrior when you think about it. Anybody who’s elite in whatever they do, whether it is an elite athlete, whether they are an elite performing musician, whatever their habits and to use your to your word, their rituals, you know, don’t look like the next guy, and nor do they care that nobody else knows and nobody else is checking in. Or even if they do, it’s the one person in your example, that does care. But they’re going to do it because they want to become a leader and that is their aspiration. I love it. Exactly part of your business. So right now, David is helping companies to develop their values. Yeah. Why would that be important, let’s say to a team of business travelers, whether you’re talking to an actual business traveler, or whether let’s say you’re talking to the leader of business travelers?

David McGlennen 23:49
Yeah, yeah, I think it’s so important, because one of the things I talk, I do a lot of work within culture and culture. And a lot of times, companies will set their values and they will come up with this list of values. And I like to take it to another level. So coming up with values is great. Values are like nouns, though. They’re, they’re, they’re notions that, you know, “respect, integrity”. If, you know, let’s say, you know, “respect” If I grew up in, you know, Japan, my idea of respect is different than if you grew up in the Bronx. And so there’s two different ideas there. So I like to say, taking taking values and creating what I call fundamentals or taking them to behaviors, how do we live those values out? So for any leader who is you know, has a sales force or a traveling force, that, you know, this is super important because you got to come up with the behaviors, like, you know, get clear on expectations. That’s that’s a behavior that one of my clients puts in place. In and getting clear on expectations is, what do we expect? Do we expect our road warriors to to be emailing at 11 o’clock at night? Or do we actually say no, don’t push send on that on that email after nine o’clock at night, whatever those expectations are, get clear on those expectations, that’s a behavior, I can see it, I can coach it, I can teach it, I can give feedback on it. And so I think it’s super important to be able to take your values and really create behaviors from them. And when you do that, then you’re going to set up the parameters for your team, and you’re going to help them to be elite, you can, if you get clear on expectations and say, hey, look, we expect you to take care of yourself, that’s an expectation. And when you do that, they’re the people will live to that. And and, and if you’re talking about it, talking about rituals, part of my practice, then is not just defining those those behaviors, but actually creating rituals around them, so that you can actually see them and you can live them out. And you can ask what’s been getting in the way it’s coaching. And so I really feel like for any, you know, any company that has travelers, it’s super important to be able to create this aspect, even if it’s just your division, even if it’s a if it’s so I’ve worked with a division of a fortune 200 company that had 15,000 employees, but this one division had like, like 200, I think, and so we worked on just their behaviors, their their fundamentals, and so that that’s what I see is super important is because then you can you can help your your travelers to know, how do we behave? How do we behave on the road?

Bryan Paul Buckley 26:53
So let’s zoom out. And that was really zoom in with what you just said, The zooming out is we can have these nebulous values, which sound great. But the end of the day, they’re just nouns to use your example of that. Yeah, so we’re needing to take those values and make them into tangible behaviors that we can track and we could coach, but within those behaviors in order for them to happen on a consistent basis, we need to create rituals, yeah, that are going to work our way to establish that behavior, which allows us to accomplish that set value. Is that correct?

David McGlennen 27:21
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Bryan Paul Buckley 27:23
So let’s just talk to the chairs for a minute. And generalization. And for a company who has business travelers, people on the road, you alluded to two of them a little bit one is a little bit of emailing with work. So let’s get a few more examples. If somebody is listening to this, and they are a leader of business travelers, or they’re on a team, they’re like, I aspire to be that guy, or I want to find a company who’s going to be that’s going to be my boss is somebody who’s going to allow me to get to that level to do that. So can we just kind of talk through some of the ones that you’re using on a consistent basis with your own clientele, some that could get really specific and fits to somebody who’s listening to this as a business person.

David McGlennen 28:02
Yeah, one that comes to my mind is look ahead and anticipate. I know that it was it’s a it’s a behavior that for me, when I was on the road a lot, I had to look ahead, I had to anticipate, and I know that, you know, elite road warriors are really good at doing this. Because let’s say you have a weather situation, and you know, you’re going to miss your flight. So looking ahead, and anticipating and saying, Okay, look, I know that the weather is going to be bad in Philly. So I need to reroute. So look ahead and anticipate is just one way for it to be able to, to create a vast array of behavior from a value. And so the other thing too, that I would another one that comes to my mind is assume positive intent. So, so many times I at least I’ve seen anyway, companies who, when their when their people are out on the road, they perhaps like assume that they’re, you know, doing stuff that they maybe they shouldn’t be doing? Well, let’s let’s come from a different perspective, let’s assume positive intent. So just because you you know, you see an expense item that you know, maybe doesn’t… you’re questioning or whatever, let’s assume positive intent, that’s a that’s another behavior that would actually help us to be able to make sure that we’re living out our values and and and, you know, that may not be the right one for everybody, but it kind of just came to my mind.

Bryan Paul Buckley 29:30
But it’s a strong example because you think about it. I mean, just think about how many road warriors just and of themselves are kind of the you know, the negative Norman, you know, it’s automatically they go dark all I expected this to happen. And then all of a sudden, within seconds, David, we’ve got five of those people around us who are just all enjoying that morsel of negativity, you know, um, but also to assume that your best your boss has your best intentions or that there’s a positive. I really like that because that could come in a number of different ways. Yeah. Absolutely love that. It also can mean that for me with, okay, well, if a client is late, or is making a change or something like that, what could the good be found in that just assuming the positive? And just because it’s bad right now doesn’t mean it’s going to get worse. It doesn’t mean it’s going to stay bad. Right.

David McGlennen 30:15
Right. Absolutely

Bryan Paul Buckley 30:16
It could turnaround. So I think that’s a really strong, absolutely. Anyone else? Any other any other ones that come?

David McGlennen 30:20
Yeah, you know, I think one that I love, especially for road warriors is practice the human touch, you know, the people that we encounter on the road, the person behind the desk, at the, at the hotel, the person behind the desk, you know, at a at the airport, practicing the human touch with their hands, they could be having a bad day, too, you know, and we never really know how people you know, what’s going on in people’s lives. And so I think just practicing that humaneness to be able to understand that look, they might have a lot of a lot more things going on, than meets the eye, and just a little smile and, and being kind to people, I found that, you know, my dad taught me You can attract more flies with with honey than you can with vinegar. And I gotta tell you, more times than not, I’ve gotten an upgrade, just by being nice to the person behind the desk, and, you know, upgrade to a nice room just by being kind. And I think that we forget that sometimes we’re all in our own little world. And, you know, we’re hustling.

Bryan Paul Buckley 31:27
They serve me. When I’m on the road it’s about me.

David McGlennen 31:29
Exactly. Yeah. So I mean, that’s another one. I think that’s that would be super important.

Bryan Paul Buckley 31:36
Because you think about it. If you’re at the flight attendant, and, or the you know, right there at the desk, and something’s gone wrong. You already know they’ve spoken to 40 to that other guy. Yeah. And where did that go? Right. And I’m on my desk, and the same thing is going son, you never get anywhere by yelling at somebody who can help you.

David McGlennen 31:57
Exactly. Yeah

Bryan Paul Buckley 31:58
They have the ability of making things worse. You think they’re bad now son,I

David McGlennen 32:02
It could be a whole lot worse. Exactly.

Bryan Paul Buckley 32:04
But what if you went the other direction on their worst case scenario is it doesn’t get worse, right best case scenario to your point, there’s an upgrade this there, or even maybe just made their day. Right and I know. Sometimes it’s so difficult, but even just to pause, that just jumping right in, it’s just how are you? Exactly? How’s this going? Man, that last guy was rude. I don’t know how you handled that. You kept yourself together. Man, that was that was pretty impressive. Once you know that, I saw that. And that was pretty, pretty awesome. You’re… that is so true. That human touch, especially on the road, especially when more than one’s always given on there. Any other examples? Maybe on the productivity results side of things?

David McGlennen 32:43
Yeah, I’m trying to think, you know, probably, I mean, one is, I think, probably is find a way, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s really about taking and owning personal responsibility and taking, you know, just finding that way being being persistent. There’s so many applications, I can think of just just being able to find a way but but you know, just taking responsibility for making things happen. I think it could apply to to road warriors as well.

Bryan Paul Buckley 33:15
Perfect. I love it. What would you say? Maybe David said, the business travel leader who’s looking to get more consistent results within their business travelers, it may be a combination of a handful of things that you’ve said maybe something different. But if you’re talking to that guy, the travel leader, leader, and he goes, You know, I just I just need consistent results.

David McGlennen 33:35
Right

Bryan Paul Buckley 33:36
How does he get those?

David McGlennen 33:39
Yeah, I think, you know, the one thing that I think of right away is building trust. You know, I think of like Patrick lencioni, his work in the his book, The Advantage or Five Dysfunctions of a Team. And it all stems from trust. So it’s building that trust. And so I would say this to any leader is that if you, you want to get better results, you better build trust, because that trust is the basis for a whole lot of other things that are going to lead to the results, you got to be able to have, like in the Five Dysfunctions model, you’ve got to build trust, so that you can have healthy conflict. Once you have healthy conflict, then you can gain commitment. Once you gain commitment, then you’re going to have accountability and accountability will lead to results. So I always think of the lencioni Pyramid when I think of, you know, driving that analogy.

Bryan Paul Buckley 34:31
Perfect analogy. Yeah. And I think it also ties back a little bit, David, where you’re talking as far as what the values turn into behaviors and behaviors that are obviously rituals. If I know that my boss has these certain values, so I know what to expect. Right? But I knew it’s not nebulous, like you mentioned, you know, what, respect to one person is completely different to another. That can be my own family, let alone You know, in America versus, you know, oh, Canada versus like a completely different culture in the West. But if I know specifically what those behaviors are, and I know that can be measured, and they have my best interests at heart, right, there’s a phrase I say a lot. If you invest in me personally, I’ll invest into you more professionally. Exactly.

David McGlennen 35:13
Yes, exactly. I couldn’t say it even better yet. That’s absolutely true.

Bryan Paul Buckley 35:17
Any closing thoughts? Any suggestions kind of putting a bow around this conversation here from, from rituals to values to trust?

David McGlennen 35:26
Yeah, you know, I think I think the thing that just comes to my mind is to, I really feel like value or rituals are one of the biggest things for any road warrior, especially wanting to take it to the elite level, I’ve got this sign hanging behind me here, that says play like a champion today. And it to me playing like a champion is doing the hard things, doing the things that that will get you those results, and you got to create rituals to be able to do that in whatever area whether it’s physical, emotional, your, you know, your, your, your eating, you have to create those and so I would say that the biggest thing that any road warrior who wants to go to the elite level and really when I think it you know, when when at family when at work, you got to create some some healthy rituals. And so that’s maybe the last thing I could say.

Bryan Paul Buckley 36:19
Love it. And I love the last word of that song because I’m staring at it right now. You know, it’s we’re doing this via video, playing like a champion today

David McGlennen 36:25
Today.

Bryan Paul Buckley 36:26
Because yesterday doesn’t matter as a league guy. You know, there’s the guy who’s the one and done or the you know, he’s the one hit wonder. Made the all star game one time. Yep. But he’s not the perennial guy. You know, he’s not the elite, you know, to use our word on there. So I love love. Love that. So before I let you go, let’s go through the road warrior road life lightning round. Are you ready?

David McGlennen 36:50
Yep. I’m ready.

Bryan Paul Buckley 36:51
Your preferred airlines.

David McGlennen 36:53
I’m a Delta guy.

Bryan Paul Buckley 36:54
Window or aisle?

David McGlennen 36:56
I am an aisle guy.

Bryan Paul Buckley 36:58
Why?

David McGlennen 36:59
Well yeah. Yes. So I, I number one, I’d like to get out and get on my way. But then secondly, I’m always a right side aisle guy, because I’ve got a leg issue I had a on a long flight I had a blood clot and so I like to stretch my leg out and in that left leg on the right side is is like mandatory.

Bryan Paul Buckley 37:19
Love the specificity I am also a an aisle right side guy. And the reason is, I’m left handed.

David McGlennen 37:26
Oh, yeah, me too.

Bryan Paul Buckley 37:26
Oh, there you go. So the benefit of your of your blood clot issue obviously was post being born left hand but nonetheless. Yes. And that that chicken wing out there, especially if I’m having to write at all I’m not you know, especially in that middle seat guy right there, of course is usually the overweight guy. Right? I really don’t care to have my right elbow in the middle of his belly button. This is not about me right now. This is your lightning round. So I’ve totally made it about me. Oh, one thing you always do on a flight? You’ve already mentioned this one.

David McGlennen 37:53
Yeah, yeah. So I always I always listen to music and nine times out of 10 I’m always reading as well.

Bryan Paul Buckley 37:59
Preferred hotel chain?

David McGlennen 38:01
Marriott I love Marriott.

Bryan Paul Buckley 38:03
Any certain specific of the Marriott properties.

David McGlennen 38:07
I’m not necessarily now I do like the Courtyards. But But I just like the I just like the brand as a whole

Bryan Paul Buckley 38:16
Rental car or rideshare?

David McGlennen 38:18
Rental car. I like Hertz because they make it super easy to be out, especially with their app. It’s it’s there’s just a lot of ease to that.

Bryan Paul Buckley 38:29
Least favorite airports?

David McGlennen 38:31
Oh, gosh, LaGuardia.

Bryan Paul Buckley 38:33
That seems to be the common answer. Just so you know.

David McGlennen 38:35
Is it really? okay

Bryan Paul Buckley 38:37
Yeah, they are to their credit they’re getting better. I had a Southwest flight that I had to take out of LaGuardia and I was used to use be able to do Newark and this whole section is starting to open up so they…

David McGlennen 38:47
And fun fact too. LaGuardia was really kind of the turning point in my in my life in my career, because it was the kind of it was kind of like the camel that broke the arrows the thing that broke the camel’s back because long story but but I was sitting in you know, a lineup of airplanes taxiing out because we had gotten delayed and I was going to miss one of my son’s concerts and so I was like, something’s got to change. So…

Bryan Paul Buckley 39:17
That makes sense. Definitely.

David McGlennen 39:18
LaGuardia.

Bryan Paul Buckley 39:19
That’s a good one. Yeah favorite city to frequent?

David McGlennen 39:23
I love Atlanta. I love Atlanta I know people hate the the traffic but man I love Atlanta. There’s just so much cool stuff there and it and I probably like it too just because I’ve gone there quite a bit in my travels and like it that’s that’s that that airport is probably the one that I can I can navigate with my eyes closed and then I’m asleep, but yeah, I love Atlanta.

Bryan Paul Buckley 39:47
See most people like the city they don’t like the airport. Last one, biggest road pet peave?

David McGlennen 39:52
Well, so we actually kind of talked around it earlier. I I just really don’t like it when people go up to an airport attendant and just like, berate them and and yell at them, or just get all fired up when it’s, there’s nothing that can be done. I just I laughed, but that’s a pet peeve of mine. I’m like, why are you doing that you’re wasting your breath.

Bryan Paul Buckley 40:19
Comic relief.

David McGlennen 40:20
That is my pet peeve.

Bryan Paul Buckley 40:21
I also feel so many emotions I feel so bad for the person is getting beat a little. How can we find out more about you?

David McGlennen 40:29
Yeah, so you can definitely connect with me on LinkedIn. I’m on that platform quite a bit. You can also check out my my website, DavidMcGlennen.com. And also, I’ve got a podcast that just launched called “In the Growth Space”. And so DavidMcGlennen.com/podcast and you can see that or anywhere, Spotify, you know, Stitcher, Apple, whatever. And you’re going to be on that here very soon as well,

Bryan Paul Buckley 40:59
which I’m looking forward to. And so I love this. I mean, you’re a resource guy. So I love that I’ll make sure that we list the books that were that were you that you referenced, obviously, your podcasts will be referenced on there, the LinkedIn link will be there as well. David, thank you so much for Thanks. Yeah, breathing into us as road warriors. And even though you’re not on the road as much, it was a huge part of your life. It was so to do at such a high level with five kids but then also too, training for a triathlon. This is a lot with there, so thanks for thanks for dropping the knowledge bombs too here today.

David McGlennen 41:31
You got it, man, thank you for having me on.

Bryan Paul Buckley 41:37
One of the best decisions I ever made on the road, was choosing just to take two minutes a day to write in a specific journal something to my wife, to let her know that she wasn’t forgotten while I was on the road. I wrote the location and the date at the top. Then I take just two minutes to write a memory and encouragement. How I was always thinking of her in the moment, or missed her. So one day, she would read this entry and know her husband was thinking of her when she received this journal. It was a game changer in our relationship, all because of two intentional minutes on the road to and this journal is now available, called the Not Forgotten Journal. Go to elite roadwarrior.com/store to purchase your own copy for your significant other.

Bryan Paul Buckley 42:33
Let’s land this plane.

Bryan Paul Buckley 42:37
I’d like to thank David McGlennen for his time, for his honesty, his challenges and his insights for us to become and remain elite road warriors so much there.

Bryan Paul Buckley 42:52
You can find the transcript and everything referenced in this interview in the show notes at eliteroadwarrior.com/094 along with the free resources for both the business traveler and the team leader of business travelers. And as always, I’d love to hear from you. And you can reach me on my primary social media sources. LinkedIn at Brian Paul Buckley, Instagram @eliteroadwarrior and on LinkedIn at the Elite Road Warrior company page. So wherever you are, do something anything, just not nothing to master the business travel life Leverage the concept from this interview from David to help you become and remain an elite road warrior today who eliminates burnout and exceeds results. You got this!

References

David McGlennen LinkedIn Page 

David McGlennen website

7 Early Warning Signs for Companies to Avoid Business Travel Burnout

Top Ten Business Travel Hacks Guide

 

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Transcription

Bryan Paul Buckley 0:00
Episode 092 of the Elite Road Warrior Podcast. Welcome to the Elite Road Warrior Podcast where we believe you can leverage the road to transform your work, health and home life while on business travel, to ultimately master the business travel life. If you’re a road warrior, and a great chance you’re on the road right now then this podcast is for you.

Bryan Paul Buckley 1:00
Welcome to the Elite Road Warrior Podcast I’m your host Bryan Paul Buckley, fellow road warrior, husband of one, father of five and on a mission to help business travelers eliminate burnout and exceed results. I’m also committed to each and every business trip to becoming and remaining an elite road warrior, and I’d love nothing more than for you to join my master evil plan on this worthwhile road trip.

Bryan Paul Buckley 1:26
Well, I’ve been on a recent streak of finding some great guests who are also authors, which means I’ve been reading an absolute ton. And if you know anything about yours truly, I’m a voracious reader, and a huge fan of personal and professional development. In fact, it’s energy habit number five, Develop. Now if you’re in transition with your career, or you want to be, then this interview will be exactly what you need. So let’s meet today’s subject matter expert. Tracy Timm is the founder of the Instagram Career Academy. The proven clarity system that helps high potential professionals discover, define, and drive careers they love. She has a degree in behavioral psychology from Yale University and studied design thinking with the founder of the D school at Stanford University. Timm left a successful but unsatisfying career in finance, travelled once around the world on Semester at Sea and discovered her ideal career. She now is living her dream as a sought after career clarity expert, organizational advisor, speaker and author and lead you through the nth degree process a proven step by step strategy to achieve total career clarity, and we’re going to unpack that in this interview. Timm is a lively, enthusiastic and encouraging coach whose guidance will help you go from stuck in your job to unstoppable in your career and life. For more than five years, she has applied these lessons in her career advisory work with hundreds of individuals in one of the 100 fastest-growing companies. In a moment, I’ll be asking Tracy the following questions. What is a current and reverse life audit? What are the benefits of behavioral assessments? What is the nothing is wasted mindset? What is the four-part career pitch and why is it important? And as always, so much more.

Bryan Paul Buckley 3:35
It’s go time.

Bryan Paul Buckley 3:51
Well, I am live right now with Tracy Timm, where are you and how are you my friend?

Tracy Timm 3:55
Oh, you know what? I’m so good. I am in Dallas, Texas. in Dallas proper. I’m in my cute little office, despite most people not being in offices, but I work in an industrial space. And so I’ve got my own little fishbowl that I get to come to every day and it’s just a nice way to get out of the house, frankly. And you know what, Bryan, I’m in like such a great phase of life right now and that I really just want to share it with everybody. Like I wake up so grateful for business and my personal life and just to have another great day to serve people. So I know that might sound cheesy, but given the hard times that we’re in I feel like the world needs a little bright spot.

Bryan Paul Buckley 4:32
Absolutely. And that’s a pepper jack kind of cheese and I’m about the spice on there. So we’re gonna take that and you deserve Tracy some mad kudos here. Release of your new book. And obviously we’re going to unpack that. How’s it just feel to just get that out?

Tracy Timm 4:46
Thank you, sir. It’s oh my gosh, if y’all if you don’t like have a book on your heart, don’t write a book. It’s an undertaking for sure. But I did not expect how excited I would feel on the day that it came out. I mean, I woke up and was like Little kid on Christmas type of excited plus your birthday plus like the birth of a child Plus, you know, like it was all those things. And just the response has been incredible. I’m really just like I said, super grateful and excited that we’re getting such good traction with it. Yeah.

Bryan Paul Buckley 5:19
And deservedly so. And so once you give us the backstory of the new book, and the title again is Unstoppable, Discover Your true value define your genius zone and drive your… What was it? dream career. So thank you, I was close to a three. But nonetheless. So I’m… and you share this in the book itself with this. But for the listener who is brand new to you brand new to the book, just give us a little bit of that backstory and then we’re going to obviously dive into the framework and in…

Tracy Timm 5:51
Perfect, so in a lot of ways it was funny it’s on the inside cover the book, where you know, it’s not the acknowledgments, it’s the dedication, I think it’s called, I wrote to all the people I’ve told in the last 10 years that I would write a book. Look, I did it. So in a lot of ways, either Thank you, there’s been like a book on my mind for quite some time. And I didn’t ever think it’d be this book, frankly, as the first one. But I knew that I wanted to get a message out there in a bigger way and in a more sort of broadly impactful way. So book writing was always in my future, I just again had no idea what this one would be about. So unstoppable is really a break down step by step of the proven process methodology. You can think about it as your recipe, if you will, for going from stuck professionally, to feeling unstoppable in your career, whatever that means to you. Maybe you’re on a 00 on a one to 10 scale of clarity or maybe you lost your vision somewhere, maybe you just lost confidence. Or maybe all this uncertainty has got you questioning things. And all those things can make us feel stuck and paralyzed where we are. And the goal of unstoppable is to remind you of the amazing value-add individual that you are not in a cheesy way but in an absolutely value-driven way. So that you can discover that true value as a human, you can define your perfect, unique, amazing fit genius zone out in the marketplace, and then give you all the tools and skills and strategy to really implement that aka drive your career forward like a pro. And the inspiration for it. Frankly, first and foremost came from my own life. You know you hear this a lot from entrepreneurs who I had a problem that I solved Exactly. I had a great degree from a great school, I studied psychology, I went to Yale, I felt like I was sort of set up for success, except I had no idea what I wanted to do with that out in the world after I was done with school. And with the absence of a vision I got, you know, easily swayed by what everyone else was doing and what was readily available, which happens to all of us right sort of opportunities come and we’re like, well, I guess I gotta take one of these it’s burning my hands. And so my first job out of college was on Wall Street. And frankly, the very original inspiration for unstoppable which actually was first and foremost, the inspiration for my business and the career programs that we have.

Tracy Timm 8:08
And all those things was the fact that the only thing keeping me in that job was a lack of clarity. I was miserable. I was drinking NyQuil to try to go to bed because I was so anxious. I had like glimpses of hope in that I could see friends who had jobs that they love, but that made me feel even worse, you know, all those things. And yet, knowing that I was in the wrong place, I felt stuck there because I lacked a vision, you know, I lacked clear… what we call career clarity, in the simplest terms. And I remember reaching out to multiple resources and saying, Do you have a Java book? Do you have a program? Do you have a step by… if you have anything, could you just sort of wave a magic wand? I’d love that. You know, and I was just fascinated that even in today’s world where you can look up anything on the internet, right? If I want to, like jump my car, there’s a YouTube video for that if I want to bake a cake, there’s a recipe for that. I’ve never ever crocheted before but I could teach myself, right? And presumably, end up with a blanket. But there’s no step by step, sort of proven, updated process for career clarity. There’s no proven recipe and I thought that’s wrong. You know, there’s something wrong with that. And I was the first seed that I ever had planted that maybe this is a problem I could solve. And if I could solve it for myself, then I could certainly solve it for other people.

Bryan Paul Buckley 9:26
And Tracy, I loved it. And in the book, he talks about the moment you had with a co-worker going outside, and all of a sudden he just gets lit up. So I wanted you to give that quick example of that because it’s a very eye-opening experience for you, man. Like I’ve known this guy for how long and all of a sudden he’s got all of a sudden just so completely… but he is a co-worker with you and miserable with you.

Tracy Timm 9:49
Exactly. I’d known this guy for a year we sat on the same desk. We work together every single day for somewhere around, you know, 11/12 hours a day. And I thought I knew him, you know, presumably, I knew him better than most people in his life, and we were outside one-day walking, sort of on the balcony of our office. And we both noticed that there was some construction going on on a bridge that was adjacent to the building. And I just casually said, Hey, I wonder what’s going on down there because it was something different in our peripheral vision, right meant nothing to me. And he literally eyes on it. From the moment he put eyes on it became this whole new person and just started gushing about cement and rocks and construction and engineering. And it turns out that he had studied engineering in college, he was obsessed with construction, he loved all the different materials and the process and the people involved. And so for the next five minutes, he was like, off in never Neverland, you know, in flow, telling me all these amazing stories about how he had studied all this stuff that he loved, and I just basically, I mean, straight up, shook him by the shoulders like WTF man, like, why are you doing this? And what pissed me off about it was that remember, the only thing keeping me there was a lack of knowing what I wanted to do. And here’s this guy who knows exactly what to do. And he’s still staying there. Like what? Yeah, that was, that was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. It was one of sort of two or three major epiphanies that I had in that span of time, that really got me.

Bryan Paul Buckley 11:15
And you don’t even ride camels. So that was a big moment, right?

Tracy Timm 11:18
Huge camel hump, huge.

Bryan Paul Buckley 11:22
Hashtag, of course,

Tracy Timm 11:25
maybe we don’t run with that one. But it was mass, it was a big breakthrough for me just to see that it was possible, because I had forgotten that people could gush about work, or that they were passionate about things because I was surrounded by people who hated what they were doing, who wore golden handcuffs to their desk, and you only know what’s in your sphere, right? Like you can’t know what you don’t know. And until someone makes it available to you, it’s really hard to see other options for how things could be.

Bryan Paul Buckley 11:51
And as a result of that, you created a framework and I absolutely am a huge fan of frameworks. Elite roadwarrior group is built on a framework, the six energy habits framework. So as a result of that, obviously, it allows you to work through a process. So Tracy might just give us a 30,000-foot view, of course, usually from an airplane for most of us on business travel, here are the three major categories. And then we’re gonna unpack each of those with some further questions, but just kind of give us that 30,000 foot look,

Tracy Timm 12:17
yeah, I’m certainly so when I think about the nth degree, which is our proven methodology, it can be best broken down into three phases that encompass all of the steps that you need to take to go from stuck to unstoppable. And those phases are logical, they’re sort of like upstream, midstream, and downstream activities, if you want to think about it like that. So the first phase is going to be Discover, that’s what we call it, discover. And it’s really the process that you need to go through to discover your true value as a human being and then your value-add as a professional. And that’s the part that most of us skip, we go immediately into the midstream and downstream things, right, like, Oh, I gotta, I gotta pick a job title. And then I gotta start networking. And then I got to put my resume out there, and I got to do all these things. Well, if you haven’t taken the time to truly discover what is valuable about you, as an individual and the unique combination thereof of that value-add, well, then you’re not specific enough and targeted enough and clear enough to go out in the marketplace and actually make a case for yourself as a professional. So what that does, especially in these times of uncertainty with lots of people on, you know, on furlough or not doing their regular day to day, or maybe they’ve been let go, that just makes you a part of the noise. So the Discover process is really getting to a level of depth of understanding of who you are, to then go on to phase two, which is define.

Tracy Timm 13:34
Once we’ve done the Discover piece, then we could put all those puzzle pieces together in a sense to define your unique zone of genius as a professional. And this is the difference between you and I being athletes that are sort of amateur status. And finding an athlete that has the best shot of being a gold medal Olympic level winner, right that that’s the difference is if we can do a really good job to discovering our value. And then when we put those pieces together in the Define phase, we’re taking ourselves from employee to asset or from athlete to gold medal, right. But that’s still in the visioning part of the process, right? So as you guys all know, a sort of a vision is only as good as its implementation.

Tracy Timm 14:18
So you’ve got to go on to the next, the last phase, which is Drive. Which is what are you going to do to actually go and execute on this vision? What are the steps that are required in today’s world, to turn that vision into your reality? So those are the big three phases, it’s discover, define, and drive. And then within each of those phases, we’ve got a handful of steps to complete those phases to get to the next phase. And what I love about the nth degree as a process, and this is probably how yours works as well, is that you’re never necessarily complete. It’s more of an evolutionary process. If you read the book and you look at the imagery, it’s in a circle, you start at the top and you end back at the top. And I think there’s no better time than the present with the virus and everything going on and all the uncertainty in the world, too. Realize that you’re going to have to do this iterative process on yourself as you grow and evolve. And if you’re doing it on purpose as opposed to reactionarily, then you get to remain in the driver’s seat, you get to maintain some semblance of control and some semblance of certainty. But at the very least confidence and clarity,

Bryan Paul Buckley 15:17
which I love that you said, evolve and grow. Because that’s obviously key. Otherwise, it is just… it’s linear. You go from here to here. Yeah. So let’s unpack a little bit of the Discover phase. And I love what you did. So we actually go back a little bit, is a lot more of a workbook than necessarily just a book. And that was something that attracted me to the content. Yeah, because I want to do the exercises. And so for the listener on there, this is something where it’s all of a sudden, yeah, you got some homework, but it’s more like you work on unpacking and discovering, literally, that’s the first phase so much about yourself. So you walk us through this current life audits, and then also a reverse life audit. So the importance of that?

Tracy Timm 16:05
Absolutely. So what Bryan’s talking about is the very first step in the Discover phase. And we… what I’d like to call that is just: now. Where are you in your life right now? And you know, what, if you and I went up to 100 people out on the street and ask them, what are your top five core values? And what are the best things that you have going on in each of the major areas of your life? I bet you would get… we’d get a lot of stupefied faces, right? Like, what… how… when was the last time you took a step back and just audited your life? Especially if there’s something that needs triage in any specific area. So let’s say your finances or… if your finances aren’t where you want them to be, or your job sucks, or your relationship is falling apart, it can seem like everything is doomed, and everything is disastrous. But if you take a step back and do a full audit, we sort of break it down into eight core areas of your life, it’s Oh, gosh,

Bryan Paul Buckley 17:03
yeah, environmental

Tracy Timm 17:05
yes.

Bryan Paul Buckley 17:05
Financial, intellectual, you did have an acronym. In order of professional, social and

Tracy Timm 17:16
spiritual. Yeah, you got it. So if you break it down into those sort of major areas, and you can categorize them however you want, you know, some people are like faith, family, friends, yeah. And you just look at it from a global perspective, you what you actually find, and this is true, no matter who you are, and what you’re going through, you have some levers to pull. And in some areas of your life, things are actually not that bad. And what’s great about that is it allows you to have a foundation from which to move forward to better triage the areas where things aren’t working so well. So the importance of a life audit is just to give yourself some perspective, and it’s the very first step that we do. Yeah, it’s the very first step that we do. Gaining that perspective via life audit, in the “now” portion of this discovery process. Then we go into core values, which I think are sometimes overplayed and overdone, but never to the extent that we do it, which is taking your core values, and defining them in order to turn them into commitments. So not just stopping with, oh, faith is important to me, but actually defining how does that mean I’m going to live my life, what am I going to do differently, because that is an important value to me. And what this does is give us a foundation for what’s viable for you going forward. And by viable, I mean, potentially sustainable. Potentially sustainable because the only reason that I couldn’t last on Wall Street was not because I’m not a hard worker, not because I’m not smart, not because I can’t hang not because the pressure’s too much. But because it was an unsustainable environment. For me, from a core values perspective, I could only live so long against some of the things that I really deeply valued, whether it was freedom, because I was stuck at the desk, or it was integrity, because every once in a while you got to fudge the lines, right? Whatever it is, those environments where you’re not allowed to live true to your core values are inherently unsustainable for us in the long run. And it’s important to recognize that,

Bryan Paul Buckley 19:11
And I love how you used… you encouraged us to do it, it’s kind of descriptive, wow, for lack of a better phrase. And I’m still nuancing that because I think that’s super cool. And you gave an example in the book about to kind of be in a Midwestern life, where that matters to them. And that’s a value to them. So then taking a job that was going to be nowhere near that is automatically, well, no, I don’t need to go down the path of well, how much is it going to be? What could the package look like? And all of that, because automatically I know, it’s a value that’s not going to change on there. But I also love to Tracy, where you leave a little bit later in the book, we walk through the kind of the reverse life audit. So we’ll talk about that because obviously the now but then we’re looking into the future about…so to talk about that for a moment.

Tracy Timm 19:58
Oh, absolutely. So basically, I think you can take the same process of auditing where you are currently in your life. And you can use that same format those same categories and look forward now that you know your values and commitments and actually define what does an ideal expression of all of these things look like for me in this phase of my life, right now, if I could write my social life any way that I wanted, right now, what would that look like and be true to my core values and commitments? If I could write my spiritual life, if I could write my professional life, if I could write my financial life, like, what would all those component parts look like? If I were looking forward living my values, living my commitments and things were ideal. And it’s so important to have that level of specified vision for what you want in your life. I mean, you can get as woo-woo is sort of, you know, the secret and manifestation and all that kind of stuff. But if you just look at the core of our psychology, and the way that our brains work, our brains are tuned to things we already believe and things we’re already thinking about. So if you’ve ever bought a car, this is a great example. You probably research the hell out of that car, and you just… I want this color. I want this thing I want this year, I want this, whatever. And you’ve probably never even seen that car before. But now as soon as it’s top of mind as soon as you buy it, guess what your neighbor has it, your best friend has it shows up at your office,

Bryan Paul Buckley 21:17
you know what that’s called Tracy? I’ve learned this as a business traveler. It’s called DCs. It’s dark Dodge Charger syndrome. When I started driving a Dodge Charger as a rental car. I’m like, Holy schnikeys they are absolutely everywhere. It’s just Yes. No, you’re exactly right of that. But I love the process that you take people through of self-discovery, and you’re also big on behavioral assessments. What are the benefits of taking the time to work through these because I think sometimes you know, we get them at work. And we’re kind of like, yeah, yada, yada, yada. I gotta fill out the deal for them. Not necessarily for us and what we’re gonna gain from them.

Tracy Timm 21:55
Okay, so this is super powerful because what an assessment can do for you is finally legitimize who you actually are. Meaning when Tracy Timm was working on Wall Street, that was the Einstein equivalent of a fish trying to climb a tree and calling itself stupid every single day. And guess what this fish thought that you had to be able to climb a tree to be successful and that there was no environment where being a fish was not only not helpful, but was also a liability, right?

Bryan Paul Buckley 21:55
And talking. Just saying.

Tracy Timm 21:59
What do you mean and talking?

Bryan Paul Buckley 22:14
Oh, and a talking fish

Tracy Timm 22:31
yeah, that’s very awkward. I know.

Bryan Paul Buckley 22:33
Exactly. I mean, honestly, it’s a great point. good analogy.

Tracy Timm 22:37
Yeah. So when you take assessments, honestly, one of the very first ones that really moved the needle, for me was an assessment called the predictive index. And it was the first time where the person that I naturally am the informal, talkative people-oriented connects quickly, very sensitive, like all the things that I was, was actually written in a way where it sounded like a good person like it sounded like a professional, it sounded like someone that I wanted to be and could be and was valuable somewhere. It was a surprise myself to me, right, because I sounded valuable. Finally, as opposed to sounding like a liability, which is how I had felt my entire career. So I think if you’re feeling in… out of alignment from… we’ve moved on to the second step in discover, which is nature, if you’re feeling out of alignment, like you’re a fish trying to climb a tree, or you’re a cow swimming around in an ocean, and things just aren’t clicking for you, behavioral assessments are a great way to level-set on what your true values, strengths, behaviors, personality, gifts, talents, however, you want to phrase it, it actually finally puts those in perspective and shows you in what environment are these things that are core to you and hardwired in you actually useful and valuable, which is crucial in your career.

Bryan Paul Buckley 23:59
And I appreciate you listed a number of different examples that are in there. I think a lot of times we’ve taken you know, whether it’s, you know, it’s Myers Briggs, or the enneagram, or Strength Finders, or you know, a number of those, but also, and I really, really love just how we unpack and discover about ourselves. And I think sometimes we do it because a company is making us do it, it’s because we know whether it’s the new thing, or whether it is because they’re looking at hiring you. And it’s more for them. But this is the discovery phase, like he’s mentioned going from now to nature, how are we normally wired, how can we come alive? So I absolutely love, love how you did that. But you also did something was very unique. You talked about this, nothing is wasted mindset. So unpack what that is.

Tracy Timm 24:45
Yeah. So if we’ve already covered now, which is who you are, where you are in your life, what you value, and then nature which is your hard wiring, it’s the things that you were born with or that come naturally and easily to you without much effort. Then the missing puzzle piece we call nurture. It’s everything else, what have you learned? What have you earned over time that you can add to your toolkit that helps you add value? Again, this is all about value helps you add value as a professional, that can be your education, it could be your work experience, it could be your life experiences, have you traveled or volunteered? Or do you have a hobby or an extracurricular that you love, that could add more value in the professional world? All those things are crucial to really do a deep dive and discover. And the way that I learned this was, so after I quit my wall street job, I was trying to figure out the fastest way to test out the max the most number of possible futures that I could, because I’m all about efficiency. I don’t like wasting time. So I found Semester at Sea, which actually allowed me at 25 years old to test out traveling full time to test out going back to school to test out starting a business potentially, and then to test out what industry that would be in because I was, frankly, I was just reactionarily, and running away from money and going towards like nonprofit and social enterprise, which ended up not being a long term solution, but I got to test drive it, right? And so in the span of four months, I traveled around the world and I met incredible mentors, and I took classes and just had this incredible life experience that helped me figure out what I wanted to do next. The nothing is wasted mindset was taught to me by a mentor that I met on that trip because I told her, as many of us think, I think misguidedly, that if you’re making a shift in your career, whether it’s tiny or huge, it’s so easy to feel like you’ve wasted time in the previous job, previous role, previous industry insert previous thing here because you’re not doing that exact thing moving forward, right. So you immediately write that off as wasted time. And it’s easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater, especially if you had a rather traumatic previous job experience like the burnout. So she was like, Listen like you have two and a half years of working and living and learning. And that is only wasted if you choose to waste it.

Bryan Paul Buckley 27:03
Oh, say that, again. That was gold.

Tracy Timm 27:05
That is only wasted if you choose to waste it. And the way that you don’t waste it is by building a nothing is wasted mindset. So look at what you’ve done. Look at that work and ask yourself, what did I learn? And what can I bring with me? Just over and over again? What did I learn? And what can I bring with me? What did I learn? And what can I bring with me? And our job as professionals is to repurpose those trainings, that skill, the knowledge, the expertise that we learned from a previous experience, and figure out how to make it relevant and valuable in a new better fitting environment going forward.

Bryan Paul Buckley 27:45
Taking notes, I love that. That is awesome. Oh, nice. So what did I learn? And what can I bring with me? Yeah, and I think, I mean, how many times to Tracy, you talk to somebody in their degree that they got, they’re not using it all. And some of the jobs you look at, I remember one guy in an industry, and he was an engineer. And but he hated it. Like we would go out for lunch or go out for drinks. And he could just tell he was passionate about real estate, his passionate about some of these other things to your point of the story earlier, right. And all of a sudden, he got a chance for a buyout. And all of a sudden, he’s an unbelievably successful real estate agent. Wow. But it’s one of those things where it’s like one of these is not like the other. And so I really like the concept of that, especially if you do feel stuck to your point or you’re struggling through this, or you feel like you’re just going from job to job to job. But you also talk about ninja skills. So what are ninja skills? If we already talked about nothing is wasted?

Tracy Timm 28:41
Yes. So it’s really easy, I think easier conceptually to draw value from your education because our society has said education is boring college valuable, yada, yada. And then also your previous work experience because that’s where the majority of our resume is going to come from. And it’s where a lot of our professional skills come from. But I think one of the most untapped areas that people don’t actually realize has a ton of potential professional value is everything else in your life and, and everything else in your life means every other life experience. It means travel experience, it means any time that you learned a life lesson, it means how and when you volunteered and what you learned, it means your extracurriculars, it means things that you were forced to do that you didn’t really want to do. It was like everyone has a thing. Mine was like stocking shelves at CCA, which was such a good thing to do, but I was like Why am I doing this? Exactly. And you know, but you learn something about yourself in every one of those capacities. And it can only add value, it can’t detract value from you. So if you can harness it, then what you can actually do is, is add more value in a really unexpected way that can actually prepare you for a job that you may not feel like you have the world work experience to substantiate and we see,

Bryan Paul Buckley 30:02
especially when you’re taking it back to nothing is wasted mindset.

Tracy Timm 30:05
Exactly, exactly. And you get to add fun things to your environment that maybe you would never have thought you wanted needed would ask for. But because it’s inherent in your ninja skills if you’ve been doing something for five years on the side, and it’s fun, why not tell that to your employer, or why not add that into your business, or why not add that into your practice, and have more fun, because if it’s something you’re working on on the side, or you volunteer, or it’s a hobby of yours, you already like it, it’s already fun for you. So if you can monetize it, if it can allow you to add more value, which means you can leverage it for more salary, more time off more fulfillment, whatever, Happy Days, right? It’s, it’s ripe for the picking. So in our business, we call those your ninja skills, it’s the things that you get to pull out of your, you know, your sort of Ninja, I don’t know what you whatever.

Bryan Paul Buckley 30:52
And it’s not a ninja satchel, just so you know,

Tracy Timm 30:55
like a ninja. No fanny pack

Bryan Paul Buckley 30:59
we’ll go with fanny pack,

Tracy Timm 31:01
I own at least three packs. So I had to go there. But uh, yeah, it’s the things you get to pull out of your back pocket and say, like, look at this extra thing that I can leverage on, you know, your behalf, my behalf, whatever, that allows me to add more value. And so I just like calling them ninja skills, because that’s more fun.

Bryan Paul Buckley 31:16
It’s richer. And but I love Tracy, it’s just a matter of thinking about your life holistically. And it’s all these little areas like you’re seeing where nothing is wasted on this and finding out, wow, there’s so much to my life that I could use in a number of different ways. And so the part of the book that I really enjoyed, like we talk about the workbook is kind of that at the end of each chapter, you’ve got unstoppable. You work through each of these. So it makes these exercises a lot more tangible. One of the words we use in elite road warrior is called thinkspace. It’s taking time to think on paper. So it’s I’m literally thinking about one specific thing. It’s thinkspace. And this I took each day and I worked through each of these. And it was fun initially, it’s kind of like, I can’t really think of something. But then all of a sudden, flood state starts to go because I’m concentrating time to work on these and develop these. Yeah, so I want to turn a corner, you talk about these four areas of passion, skill paid for, and contribution. But I think you talked about more of what you love what you’re good at what the world needs in what you can get paid for. So let’s dive into that a little bit. And why is that important?

Tracy Timm 32:23
Yeah. So one of my very first clients actually is still when the Nth degree was being like birthed if you will like if we didn’t have a solid methodology, it’s probably like year two year one in the business. But I was coaching people and I was building it, right. And he was he graduated and then he was in some kind of seminar and he shot me this image and he was like, have you ever heard of this? It sounds so much like what you’re trying to build and teach. And it’s this ancient Japanese concept called ikigai. It’s spelled I K I G A I., as one guy I talked to recently was like, not Icky guy like that. Exactly.

Bryan Paul Buckley 32:57
Yeah, nice.

Tracy Timm 32:58
Like geeky guy. And when it’s it’s, it’s the Japanese’s a concept for your reason for being. So if you’re French, it’s like your raise on debt. Right? It’s, it’s why I get up in the morning, you could say or what’s really driving sustainability and success in your life, if you apply it to your career. The four concepts are, as Brian just said, what you’re good at what you love, what you can be paid for, and what the world needs, without which I’ll also rephrase as what you find meaningful. But it also needs a world need because if nobody needs it, it’s really hard to get paid to do it, you know, that you don’t really add a lot of value. So these four areas I find if you can find a role where you love it, meaning it just aligns with who you are, you just light up about it, you’re passionate about it, you’re purposeful sort of thing, right? And you’re also good at it, meaning you don’t have to, you’re not having to overcome sort of a significant barrier to actually executing well at this job. And the world needs it and you find it meaningful so it has and creates value out in the world. And then you can monetize it. That’s the genius zone right like if you have all four of those things you’re rocking and rolling you have a reason for being have a very good chance of having a long-term sustainable successful career doing whatever you’re doing.

Bryan Paul Buckley 34:24
So otherwise, it’s just a hobby, especially if I’m not getting paid for it.

Tracy Timm 34:26
You’re not getting paid for it you’re a volunteer right or it’s a hobby or it’s you know, your side hustle or what but again, it’s if you want this to be your career, then absolutely you’ve got to monetize it. What the Japanese use this for is a basically reframing their purpose in life. So even if you’re not getting paid for it, if you’re getting value back, that is a value exchange. So getting paid for it could be in your elder age, or maybe you’re not getting paid, but you get tons of fulfillment from what you’re doing or you get tons of flexibility or tons of freedom or We like a lot of F words flexibility, finances. So value… a value exchange in our world, especially when we’re talking about career is generally summed up in finances, right? But there’s so much more value inherent to feeling fulfilled, having more freedom, having more flexibility, having more fun. When was the last time we talked about fun at work, you know what I mean? All we do is like, put our head down, and think it has to be hard. And I’m watching this like horribly horrible Netflix show where this chick is in Paris for the first time and working and she’s like, and all of her coworkers are like, you Americans just work so hard, and nobody ever has any fun. And meanwhile, they’re like drinking wine at lunch and taking three-hour breaks. And like, you know, going to lose weight, but they’re getting their work done, right. And they’re just enjoying it and having fun. And so I find that, that we just so quickly and easily sum everything up in finances when it comes to this value, transition or value exchange when there’s so many other things we can also be focused on as well.

Bryan Paul Buckley 35:58
And I think it’s great too, Tracy because it just brings to light that there are more than just what I can get paid for. And I think the older we get sometimes, or especially as a road, warrior we may be really good at doing whatever our job is. But it’s no longer what we love to do, or we’re not feeling fulfilled at that. And it puts us in a spot where we’ve got to make those decisions. And sometimes for me, honestly, Tracy, it happens on a long flight. And you start getting to know somebody and talking to, you’re clicking with somebody, and it all of a sudden starts to come out, you know, do you love your job? And that pause like somebody’s never asked them that. And the longer they start to talk or you know, a couple double vodka tonics in, and the truth comes out, you know what I’m saying? And they’re not, this is not what I want to do long term. And I think it’s very, very revealing. So, kind of a little bit full circle here. Once we’ve got these elements here, we’ve got to be prepared to be able to share this with other people, whether it’s through the networking portion of the program, or in your case, where we’re talking about kind of this four-part career pitch, you can kind of find exactly if we don’t know exactly what that role is, or Yeah, who could be a person that could introduce me to that. So let’s kind of unpack a little bit of this career pitch and networking portion.

Tracy Timm 37:14
Yeah. So once you’ve done that discover phase again, that’s now nature and nurture. And then you’ve gone through the definition of your niche, that that’d be the fourth “N” in this process, part of defining your niche is also learning how to describe it well, to people who don’t know you, and don’t have any assumptions about you, right. So if you’re talking to somebody you already know who maybe you work with, or is close to you, they’re gonna already have some preconceived notions about who you are what you do, right, you’re in a bit of a box for them, you can 100% use this pitch to reframe that box. Or you can also use it to describe exactly what you’re looking forward to a brand new person. In our world, and especially in the networking piece, we really recommend that you start with people, you know, and you get really comfortable sharing what your vision is. But then, of course, eventually going to be talking to people you don’t know. And you’re going to have to properly and professionally articulate your value in a meaningful way to another

Bryan Paul Buckley 38:13
Your elevator pitch in a way.

Tracy Timm 38:15
Exactly.

Bryan Paul Buckley 38:15
Or if you’re sitting on a plane to sit next to somebody, you’ve got only a couple minutes there possibly to, especially if there’s somebody that you feel like wow, this person is influential. And can I succinctly share exactly what I’m trying to communicate that’s in my heart that I can get out of my head and out of my mouth. And you do that a with four parts? Can you talk about that?

Tracy Timm 38:38
Exactly. So what am I best speaker friends, his name is Paul M. Jones. It Phil Jones. Sorry, Paul Jones, I think that’s a bachelor guy, Phil is the worst, I think it is. He always says the worst time to think about what you’re gonna say is when you’re saying it. So these four lines is if you’re sad to think of what you’re gonna say is when you’re saying it. And so this four-part career pitch I find is really helpful for people who have a hard time sort of being on top of their speech in the moment and thinking and speaking extemporaneously. That’s a challenge. In fact, that’s something that we have to learn and like Toastmasters and things like that if it doesn’t come naturally to you. So this four-part career pitches, just a nice way to prep. Let’s say you’re in the grocery store, and you run into an old colleague, or you’re on a plane and you run and you meet the head of blah, blah, blah, company, like you want to be ready with what you’re going to say in that moment, to get your point across. And in this case, it’s to get your career vision across. So these four steps are super simple. The first is that you want to have a purpose behind what you’re saying. And that may sound silly and overstated, but my mom and I always joke like, She’s such a great mentor and influence on me. But every anytime I go into a difficult conversation, the first question she asks is, what do you want to get out of it? What’s your goal? Why are you having the conversation in the first place and if you keep that frame of mind, it’s going to dictate everything that goes on and you won’t get distracted. So know the purpose. Is the purpose to get an introduction is the purpose to pitch yourself as an employee is the purpose to figure out the job title? Because you know your niche, but you’re not necessarily sure what it’s called, there are plenty of purposes for a pitch, figure out what yours is, that’s number one. Number two, is, remember that you’re talking to a person who’s not in your head. So you’re gonna have to enroll them, this is what we call it enroll: step into your journey. You’re gonna have to enroll them into your story, which means you’re gonna have to give them a little bit of context as to what you’ve been through, and why you’re pitching them. Right. So that could be as simple as you know, I’ve had like what I did when I was 25. And I hated my job was, you know, I started my career off in Wall Street. But I’ve known maybe from day one, that that was not the right fit for me. And I really am looking to do something that is more aligned, that allows me to be myself and allows me to add real value in the world. That could be it’s as simple as that, right? It’s as simple as giving that person some context about what you’ve been through where you are in your journey and what you’re looking for. Okay? The step that comes after that is the very next logical follow-up step, which is, what are you looking for? So we call this one vision or envision, it’s your job as the speaker to create an image in that person’s mind that they can envision and understand, right? It is your job to create a vision that they can imagine and understand. Because if you don’t, then you will be put in the I’m very confused and don’t know what this person wants box, and they cannot help you.

Bryan Paul Buckley 41:25
As you can tell in their face. They’re burning too many calories. And how do I exit stage left?

Tracy Timm 41:31
Exactly. That’s when you get the horrible like, I’ll keep you in mind.

Bryan Paul Buckley 41:34
Oh, no, that’s Yeah, that’s always just wanna be friends. It’s about me. It’s not about you. It’s about me. Exactly.

Tracy Timm 41:40
We call that the kiss of death in networking. Absolutely. So the Envision part is you are creating a vision in that person’s mind for what you’re trying to do in your career. When and this can be as… as detailed as you want it to be without the person’s eyes glazing over. What I like to do is keep it as simple as possible and focus on the six W’s, the who, what, when, where, why, and how of this ideal profession that I’m pursuing. And when I used to do this, you know, right after I quit Wall Street, and when I was still formulating exactly what I wanted to do, exactly what I would tell people was, you know what, I’ve learned that I need to be working with people, but also on people, people need to be the focus of my work. It’s not enough to work with people, I need my work to be working on people. And I’m going to work on people. I know I’m not really good at taking something broken and fixing it. What I’m really good at doing is helping something that I see has really great potential and unleashing that, unlocking that whatever that is.

Bryan Paul Buckley 42:38
And that’s a great distinction to tell somebody when you’re envisioning them for the future self. And it leads into naturally if I’m hearing that, your last step is what? Asking you as far as looking to see anything you need. Yeah, absolutely. And if you set a purpose, big time, and but if you’ve taken me and I love this to this process, even though it’s very, very simple, it does take it to a place where if I’m, if I’m buying in, then I naturally want to help and I know how I can help you. Because you’ve been very, very clear, and you’ve not rambled forever. And I’m more confused hear what I’m saying? By going on the side roads, you just need to get down the interstates on there.

Tracy Timm 43:15
And part of this is great, it’s so crucial to enfusion that…wow Envision. Envision that perfect future state and not talk about the past. Because if you’re talking about what you used to do, that’s all that’s going to be in that person’s mind. And it’s gonna be the box that they put you in, right, because you’re talking about what’s ideal and future-focused, even if you’re not already doing it. That’s the key, right? It’s the only thing that’s going to get you closer to actually doing it. I had a great friend and mentor. He’s actually the guy who wrote the cover blurb on my book. His name is Sean Acore, he used to tell me like if you want to be a photographer, call yourself a photographer, if you want to be a speaker, call yourself a speaker, because by saying that you are who you are. And by saying that you are you will be and you don’t need to get somebody else’s permission to say what you want to do and to call yourself that thing. Because if you’re pursuing it, that’s what you are. Right? So he legitimized that for me, which was great. And then yeah, like you said, The last step is ask. So when you get to the end of that vision, go back to your purpose and say, Thank you for listening to me, networking partner, person on the plane, guy in the produce aisle. What I’m really looking for is an introduction to a person who could help me explore this further, what I’m really looking for is a job offer. What I’m really looking for is Do you know of a job title or an industry where people do that thing? Because that’s, I know what it is, but I don’t know what it’s called?

Tracy Timm 44:39
Just ask. Just ask and what’s great is that they have a brain that you don’t that has had experience I haven’t had.

Bryan Paul Buckley 44:46
Right so and assuming that we shut up long enough to let them answer

Tracy Timm 44:51
isn’t that the worst?

Bryan Paul Buckley 44:52
Yeah. And to get actual feedback. And Tracy this is I mean, this is a really, really good point, especially for leveraging a business traveler because you… We get a chance to do what? We’re all over the country, possibly all over the world, and we get to meet a lot of new people. And you never know. It’s amazing. I’ve sat on planes next to fathers of NBA stars, I sat on planes of CEOs of global companies. And you never know looking at that guy, who that person is or that woman who she is. And I think kind of the precursor to this is learning to ask questions to find out. Wow, this could really be a good chance Tracy for this pitch? Because I’m learning Oh, wow. I mean, they’re in an industry or in my case, you know, they work for a company with a number of business travelers, and to find out who’s the guy or who’s the girl? Or do they have something that could help business travelers get trained, and I don’t mean I’m products and services, I mean, on having energy on the road, so you can be at your best. nobody teaches us how to do that. We just deal with travel friction and gaining weight on the road and, and staying up too late. All those issues with there. But if I can learn to ask questions, and then I’m distinct on my pitch, it’s amazing. The gold that can come out of that.

Tracy Timm 46:05
Oh, my gosh, I know, isn’t that fun? I mean, I’ve even gotten clients on planes. Like it’s amazing. When you really open up and you’re clear. Clarity is the is… Clarity is everything. That’s why we focus on career clarity above all else because someone comes to me and says, I’m having an issue getting a job, can you fix my resume? Like your resume ain’t the problem. Exactly. I didn’t tell you. You’re not getting a job because of your resume. Trust me. Yeah, no doubt, there’s something deeper and it’s usually clarity.

Bryan Paul Buckley 46:34
And with that, I think that’s usually why most people put the global Do Not Disturb symbol on a plane, which is headphones because people just ramble. And it’s also more about them, as opposed to asking calculated questions on there. So Tracy, let’s come full circle on your Is there anything that is within the book that we didn’t discuss that you’d like to highlight? Or emphasize? Or any closing thoughts?

Tracy Timm 46:58
Wow, especially for the sort of elite road warriors that are out there? Um, you know, I think being on the road can really wear on you. And I think that the better question is not how to fix it. But why, especially nowadays, if travel was a huge part of your work. And now it’s not because we can’t, and you’re missing something, this is a good time to investigate what’s missing and why that’s important to you. So if you’re looking for a good step one, I don’t think it can be overstated, that starting with your core values is probably going to make the most sense. And looking deeply at those core values, we even have a program, it’s a very small mini-program. It’s like less than 100 bucks, where we actually do a career alignment scorecard. And we walk people through the process of figuring out their top five core values. And then we force them to use those almost as like a pro/con list for how your job is or isn’t aligned, or how your career is or isn’t aligned with even just your top five core values, let alone the rest of the things that matter to you in life. And if very quickly, people can see Oh, wow, my number one core value is my family. And yeah, I’m on the road all the time, or you know, I never get to see them. I’m not there for birthdays, yada yada yada. Like this is the thing I keep hearing. Well, you cannot live in that, that dissonance for that long. That’s right if that’s really your value. cognitive dissonance is one of my favorite things I learned in psychology in college if that’s your value, but you’re physically doing something that is not aligned with that value. That’s called cognitive dissonance. And your brain creates a lot of tension and anxiety in your body when you’re experiencing cognitive dissonance. So you can’t do it that long it is inherently unsustainable. So what happens is you either change your values, aka your beliefs, or you change your behaviors, but you have to change one, you cannot live with both at odds with one another. So I would just really encourage you that if you’re experiencing that tension, to investigate where it’s coming from, and maybe it’s one simple tweak, maybe it’s only one out of those top five core values for you, and happy days, if it’s all five, give me a call, you know, like maybe I can know if it’s one and it has more to do with your energy and things like that, then that’s Bryan’s bag. So figure out really the source the root cause of what you’re feeling. And that’s where I would consider starting in this process.

Bryan Paul Buckley 49:17
Love it. Love it. Love it. So before we completely end I’m going to do this roadwarrior lightning round with you. Are you ready?

Tracy Timm 49:24
All right.

Bryan Paul Buckley 49:29
You have a preferred airlines? What is it?

Tracy Timm 49:31
Southwest?

Bryan Paul Buckley 49:32
Boom shaka laka. I suppose you’re a Dallas girl? Yeah, they’re so cool.

Tracy Timm 49:35
They’re so friendly.

Bryan Paul Buckley 49:36
window or aisle?

Tracy Timm 49:38
100% window.

Bryan Paul Buckley 49:40
Okay, why?

Tracy Timm 49:41
I curl up in a little ball and I like to stick my feet like up into the seat. Like I’m that person everybody hates. I like stick my feet up on the side and then I always like curl up and put my arm up on the wall and I sleep. That’s my go-to.

Bryan Paul Buckley 49:54
I smell people like you and I’ve got the window seat. Just kidding.

Tracy Timm 50:00
I’ve got a friend Brittany works for American Airlines and she makes fun of me constantly. She’s like, you’re the person we take pictures of and send to each other.

Bryan Paul Buckley 50:06
Exactly. That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Yeah, one thing you always do on a flight and you may have just answered that question.

Tracy Timm 50:12
You know what I almost always do a crossword as we’re taking off.

Bryan Paul Buckley 50:15
really?

Tracy Timm 50:15
Isn’t that funky? Yeah, I love crosswords. Like my dad got me into them. We used to do them together. And he did one a day like his entire life. So I usually almost always do a crossword and then I don’t know when I’m not feeling into the chatting, I sleep. I like to sleep.

Bryan Paul Buckley 50:29
Mine is read. From the moment… Did you know every single business traveler has a chance to read? You know why? We all have the same thing. No matter where we’re going, no matter where we’re flying. It’s a short flight, long flight. From the moment we sit down, we have to do what, get our seatbelt on and we can’t keep out our large electronic devices. And we got all these things going on. And it’s a good about 20 minutes until you hear we’ve now reached 10,000 feet you can put your approved electronic devices and it’s a great time to just read in maybe the book unstoppable just slid that in there right there. Alright, preferred hotel chain?

Tracy Timm 51:07
I don’t have one. I will own that I’m not maybe an elite Road Warrior and that I don’t have points anywhere. I’m not that person. I like to do Priceline last minute and get myself a deal. I like to buy the portfolio.

Bryan Paul Buckley 51:22
There you go. Yeah. Are you a rental car girl or your rideshare girl?

Tracy Timm 51:27
Depends on the trip. I like to have my own space and my own car generally speaking, but I do a lot of ride-sharing. And lately, I’ve been sort of price hunting on like, is Uber less is Lyft less like I have no loyalty is when it comes to your own business right now. Is my pocketbook.

Bryan Paul Buckley 51:44
Yeah, there you go. Nice. Least favorite airport,

Tracy Timm 51:47
LaGuardia

Bryan Paul Buckley 51:48
Oh, that was there was not a pause. There was not a pause with you. But it is improving. It is it is improving. Favorite city to frequent?

Tracy Timm 51:58
Rome 100% I haven’t been there in so long, but I got to live and study abroad there one summer in college, and I’ve gone back several times since then. And it’s… if I could just retire and be a little lady that speaks Italian and drinks a lot of red wine and gossips all day like that’d be my dream.

Bryan Paul Buckley 52:13
So it’s awesome. You may go find that on your values, so you should reach out. All right, last…

Tracy Timm 52:18
well in my 90s Anyway.

Bryan Paul Buckley 52:20
There you go. Last one biggest road pet peeve?

Tracy Timm 52:23
All right, dude, when you are at a stoplight, and the person you’re in the right lane and there’s one person in front of you and they’re not turning right. That has got to be my biggest like to to the extent that if I’m that person I will like scoot out into the intersection as far as I can to like let that person go by because I know I’m breaking my number one rule I cannot stand it because everything in Texas is right on red more or less and so if you’re just used to that you’re like why on God’s green earth would you be in the right lane if you’re not turning right because there’s all the rest of us who just want to make this right turn and go home.

Bryan Paul Buckley 52:58
So we have similar issues, my friend of mines days, those are the driving slow in the left lane. And yeah, you know you are so alright, Tracy.

Tracy Timm 53:09
Signal man.

Bryan Paul Buckley 53:14
He stays right. How do we find out more about you about the book all things Tracy Timm?

Tracy Timm 53:20
Yeah, so you can find the book at unstoppablecareerbook.com Tracy is spelled TRACY and Tim is spelled TIMM. So if you just look unstoppable and Tracy Timm, you’ll probably find it and you can get it at any major outlet, so Amazon. I even found it at Target recently which I thought was really fun.

Tracy Timm 53:37
Yeah, right. I was like oh my god, I wrote a target book. what it’s great. And then one of my best girlfriends was just traveling and we decided not to put it in Hudson news because there’s just so few travelers right now so she actually took it and put it on the shelf and took a picture for me and was like yeah, so that was adorable. And then you can connect with me directly at either TracyTimm.com or Nthdegree that’s Nth and the word degree .TracyTimm.com. It’s super easy to get in touch with me. LinkedIn is actually the only place I hang out online consistently. And so if you just find me on LinkedIn, you can connect with me, we can chat there, that’s easily the best place to get a hold of me as quickly as possible,

Tracy Timm 54:12
As most business travelers as well. I’ll make sure all the links are in the show notes. Tracy, you’ve been an absolute blast. And thank you so much for investing us as business travelers. And obviously anybody who’s listening to this you can hear her excitement and her… her knowledge on this go through the book. Even if right now you’re not in a spot where you are completely looking for a different career. There’s so much to gain just about exposure to your own life and maybe you even just confirmation you’re in the right spot. Maybe it’s a great resource for somebody else because a lot of miserable people that are in jobs right now that really need to plan they need a proven framework that obviously Tracy you provided for us so thank you so much,

Tracy Timm 54:53
Bryan from the… from email number one from you. I just loved your energy and your humor and you’re focused on helping people and so I’m so grateful. I’m grateful for the platform and what you’re doing and I hope we can do it again. This was a lot of fun.

Bryan Paul Buckley 55:06
Well, it’s good news. It’s buy one get one free, so I think it’s gonna happen. And it happened. So thank you, Tracy. Thanks.

Unknown Speaker 55:15
This is flat Caitlin, this is flat Caleb. And we’re the Buckley flat kiddos. Our dad takes us everywhere on the road. We stay in nice hotels, we drive cool rental cars. We meet people my dad meets on the road and we get to see the sights from the places my dad visits. We even get in a little bit of trouble on the road. Well, at least you do all because we’re flat kiddos. And you could do the same for your kids. Just go to eliteroadwarrior.com word.com/store to purchase your own flat kiddos. Today, you can choose an elementary boy or girl. You can even choose a toddler boy or girl just go to eliteroadwarrior.com/store to purchase your own flat kiddos. Today, your kids will love us.

Bryan Paul Buckley 56:14
I’d like to thank Tracy Timm for her time, her challenges, and these amazing insights for us to become elite road warriors in our career. You can find the transcript of everything referenced in this interview in the show notes at eliteroadwarrior.com/092 along with the free resource 10 business travel hacks guide in the show notes as well. eliteroadwarrior.com/092. And I’d love to hear from you and you can connect with me on LinkedIn at Bryan – BRYAN Paul Buckley LinkedIn page of elite road warrior and Instagram @eliteroadwarrior and as always, wherever you are, do something, anything just not nothing to master the business travel life. leverage the content from unstoppable to help you become and remain an elite Road Warrior today to eliminate burnout and exceed results. You got this.

 

References

Tracy Timm

Unstoppable Book

7 Early Warning Signs for Companies to Avoid Business Travel Burnout

Top Ten Business Travel Hacks Guide